__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
That's still pretty vague. Which of their numbers seem ridiculous?
Hyperdrive speeds are pretty difficult to refute - they really are that much faster than Federation warp drives. You'd expect as much, as the Star Trek series place so much emphasis on voyages and discoveries, whereas the entire galaxy has already been mapped by AotC, and ships regularly race the protagonists across the cosmos on the plot's convenience.
Turbolaser yields are shown "on screen" from the ESB's asteroid scenes, and are furthermore established in the Legends literature through base delta zero operations. Furthermore, they can be extrapolated through scaling power generation abilities from both the Death Star's superlaser and the numerous acceleration feats in the saga, where various vessels travel enormous distances in ludicrously small periods of time, feats that would naturally require massively powerful engines.
Shielding specs, etc. scale from that.
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Hyperdrive speeds are faster I agree. I mean I go by the eye test. I tend to go by what their weapons do on screen and how they are portrayed. It's like marvel handbooks pretty much random numbers given out no one really cares about. The storytellers do the same things in all areas of fiction. Take for instance a comic book feat to better get across my point. Supwrman lifts something iirc that weighed more than five times the weight of earth or something for five days weakened. Now granted that's a great feat but does that mean anything when he meets the next silly super villain. It's just another feat that doesn't carry over or matter. That's why I tend to look at portrayals more so than feats while most would disagree. The tie fighters on average struggle against the Millenium Falcon. Now I know it's due to the ace skills of Han but that thing is a pos and routinely has made the empire look like shit.
Now take for instance the Enterprise. It's pathetic when it comes to the Narada and the USS Vengeance but the plot makes excuses for why it survives not some skill of some pilot. Do you see where I'm coming from ?
Eh? The TIE fighters didn't struggle against the Falcon, they were doing damage to it while holding back during the Falcon's escape on the DS in ANH. ESB they were trying to capture the Falcon not destroy it.
Far, far, faster. If you're trying to look at this in a versus debate perspective, the sheer disparity in movement ability makes an Empire vs. Federation war a forgone conclusion; the Federation would take years to even get a task force to any meaningful imperial planet, whereas any star destroyer can jump out of hyperspeed right above Earth basically on a whim. The Federation would be trying to move with bungies against a modern mechanized army, lol.
These calculations are based on on-screen footage, like the asteroid vaporizations. That they happen to involve fancier physics doesn't somehow invalidate them.
Except that you need to actually address the calculations instead of just dismissing them on face.
If you're basically suggesting that we should look at some vague approximation of the creators' intent rather than the suspension of disbelief method, then I would say that neither universe's designers have any clear idea of what firepower and shielding capabilities are, and just attune them to the convenience of the plot and special effects budget.
However, that still leaves us with hyperdrives and the Death Star.
I mean, if you want to play the lowballing game, two can play that. There's just so much content here, I don't know where to start - what's the lamest ramming scene you can think of?
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Han Solo is repairing it mid combat and still manages to evade those idiots. It's still working in the latest star wars too when even Rey says it's a pile of shit basically.
Han wasn't repairing it mid-combat in ANH, in ESB he was trying to get the hyperdrive to work which had been damaged during the attack, again the Empire was trying to capture them, it's harder to capture than to kill. The fact that it works later still is a testament on how good the ship is built, not that it's bad.
Last edited by Zenwolf on May 25th, 2016 at 02:12 AM
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Far, far faster indeed but they don't operate at these speeds in combat. Warp speeds are faster than a tie fighter maneuvering around. Yes, they'd show up quickly but once engaged they aren't that quick in combat. Hell, the Executor is slow as molasses in combat and most of their star destroyers are just huge targets.
Trying to attribute real life physics to any fictional work is an exercise in futility. Most of the minds who create this work don't understand them and just do something because it looks awesome.
You have two Death Stars and a Starkiller base.
Are you referring to the USS Kelvin ? They still died horribly just to get some other people to safety. The Narada was a force to be reckoned with. It was taking on the federation single handedly. Can we say that about any empire based ship ?
Starkiller Base also proves that SW>>>ST. It absorbed an entire Star and turned it completely into energy, beat that.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
I'd say the Death Star also does this. The fact that it can charge a big enough weapon to destroy a planet and still have enough energy to run its systems, is impressive.
If just looking at the movies, although SW shouldn't be too far behind given that there's a ton of different alien species in the OT alone(cantina scene) and then the whole galactic senate in the PT.
In fact it should be superior given they can travel the galaxy with hardly any time effort on their part, but I'm just giving ST something here.
May 25th, 2016 01:28 AM
