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1v1 debate: RotS Anakin Skywalker vs. Darth Malgus
Started by: JKBart

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Kurk
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Just get on with it.

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Jan 15th, 2018 03:16 PM

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JKBart
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opener is yours guys, but if u dont want to, i can go ahead smile

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Jan 15th, 2018 09:05 PM

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JKBart
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this is legit

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Jan 15th, 2018 09:09 PM

JKBart
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ill crush it 2v1 with malgus

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Jan 15th, 2018 09:09 PM

The Ellimist
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Ok, my opener:

- Lucas says Anakin > Vader
- By Kar Vastor scaling, Vader >>> Kar Vastor = Yoda
- by Plagueis novel, EoTPM Sidious >>> Plagueis > Vitiate (who is a Sith by OOU sources OK)
- Vitiate >>>>>> Malgus

so:

Anakin > Vader >>> Kar Vastor = Yoda ~ RotS Sidious > EoTPM Sidious >>> Plagueis > Vitiate >>>>>> Malgus

smile

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Jan 15th, 2018 09:22 PM

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Nephthys
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ABC logic: Revengeance.

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Jan 15th, 2018 09:32 PM

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JKBart
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get ready for a response tomorrow smile

Neph is wrong, imma slaughter, no vengeance for anybody smile

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They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."

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Jan 15th, 2018 09:33 PM

Ursumeles
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anakin ragdolled the ones
malgus ragdolled a strike team

dunno, seems like a good match tbh

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Jan 15th, 2018 09:33 PM

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TheMuser
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For pity sake Ulic>Malgus, Anakin will have a field day lol.

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Jan 15th, 2018 09:44 PM

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Ursumeles
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Tbh, Ell's opener is pretty weak, so here comes mine:

1. Gillard
2. anakin > obi > jango, jadus lost to cipher 9, and jadus is confirmed > malgus
3. modern knowledge of the forms >>> ancient knowledge

anakin stomps actually, dunno why I called it a good match

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Jan 15th, 2018 09:48 PM

JKBart
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheMuser
For pity sake Ulic>Malgus, Anakin will have a field day lol.

watch me

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They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."

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Jan 15th, 2018 09:49 PM

Ursumeles
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Jan 19th, 2018 03:45 PM

TenebrousWay
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Malgus is still stomping as the opposition is avoiding the wrath of Bart.

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Naugrim
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Azronger
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Jan 19th, 2018 07:26 PM

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JKBart
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take it easy, writing rn smile

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They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."

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Jan 19th, 2018 07:42 PM

JKBart
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So, let us begin.

quote:
- Lucas says Anakin > Vader

Yes, that is correct. But that does not have much impact on the further subject; "the chain is as strong as its weakest link" as the saying goes, and one weak link here can tear apart the entire line of thought because of the way its constructed, requiring every part of the chain to be in place. Here, though, there are few of such errors.

quote:
- By Kar Vastor scaling, Vader >>> Kar Vastor = Yoda

Here is the part where we're encountering problems already. You didn't provide the necessary quotes, but I guess I can deem it obvious what sources are you basing this on. If there are others, feel free to add them, but so far I can base my answer on my personal knowledge. This scaling consists of the quote from Mace Windu deeming Vastor somebody packing as much power as Grand Master Yoda himself, and then Nick Rostu claiming Vader was the strongest presence he ever knew; since Nick Rostu knew Vader, Windu and Vastor, it's supposedly simple.

However, the basis for both notions is extremely lacking. Windu himself is depicted as Yoda's inferior multiple times. Quotes below:

quote:
He seems to be second most powerful jedi on the that council, next to Yoda.
~Insider 55

quote:
"We've not seen Mace fight yet, and we know that he's second only to Yoda."
~Nick Gillard

quote:
"Though it was true that he had slowed slightly in the years that Mace Windu had known him, Yoda's skill with a lightsaber was still second to none on the council."
~Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter book

So there is clearly something off with Mace's opinion. If we have Vastor as Yoda's equal, and Mace as Yoda's inferior, Mace defeating Vastor in the end, effortlessly even, is a clear "error in the matrix". Now! You can argue that the quote is about general Force power, nowhere connected to actual combat skill in a fight. Meaning that Vastor is as powerful as Yoda in terms of Force connection, general "power output" and they're in similar league as far as Force-only fights are concerned, but "all-out" fighting would be purely different story. Sure thing, there are many Kyps Durrons that pack power beyond comprehension and are only Plo-tiers in actual combat. That's the line of reasoning that stops the contradiction we see above with "Mace > Vastor > Yoda > Mace ", and it gives Vastor the best light possible. But that's not helping this debate, since it's purely combat, and I'm about to prove that Malgus is Anakin's better in actual, direct combat, not in "Force only" scenario.

Not to mention that Mace is really, really the failible character. He himself said in the same book that "he can't hope to beat Vastor on his best day", then... actually beats him in the epilogue of the book. You can't get a more obvious message about the character being failible and his opinions being wrong. He is proven wrong in the same book about the same person that he deems Yoda's equal. That's as bad of a source as you can get. It's the equivalent of using character X's quote "I can stomp Y", and having character X beaten by Y in the same source. Except here it's the plain opposite - you have the character claiming "I can't beat him on my best day" and then proceeding to actually beat him. That's the worst source possible. It's purely comical, I dare say.

Now, Nick Rostu's opinion. Here I have only a simple thing to say - he's an untrained Force user. He didn't receive any Force training at all. I would call that claiming a random Padawan the ability to state that Kit Fisto > Plo Koon, but Jedi Padawan actually received training. No comment.

With that out of the window, your notion is defeated. Your further points can go on to prove that Plagueis > Vitiate, that Palpatine > Plagueis, and that Yoda ~ Palpatine, but they don't touch Anakin or Vader at all. You can try going for all the stuff that claims Anakin and Yoda are in the same league, I presume, and hey, I agree with that notion actually. Problem is, while Yoda and Palpatine > Vitiate as confirmed by sources, it doesn't have to mean that Vitiate is out of their league. They are better, end of story, but the gap is nowhere specific. Vitiate can be in Yoda's league, while Anakin is in Yoda's league, while I can easily argue Malgus is in Vitiate's league while the inferior one as well.

However, there are actually more holes.

quote:
- by Plagueis novel, EoTPM Sidious >>> Plagueis > Vitiate (who is a Sith by OOU sources OK)

We have it pretty clear that Sidious, as of end of the book, is Plagueis's superior, agreed. But we have no prove on Plagueis > Vitiate, I can only agree with Sidious > Vitiate. Now, I think I can guess that you're using the backcover of the Plagueis novel here, but since I believe it to be an insane use of material, I'll just ask you to give me your basis for that part; maybe it's something different than that quote. If not, I shall write some details on this quote being non-usable for the purpose of this debate.

I won't disagree that Palpatine > Vitiate, and that Yoda ~ Palpatine, and that Anakin is somewhere in their league. Of course, I won't disagree neither that Vitiate > Malgus. However, that does nothing to displace Malgus > Anakin at all.

Darth Malgus himself is just a better combatant than Anakin. His feats are better, and he scales up enormously above every Jedi of the RotE era. If not for the quotes of Yoda and Palpatine being the clear superiors of all time, it would be easy to claim Malgus > Yoda. But as we have material surpassing Yoda from Malgus, and this quote, the only logical outcome is that Yoda is indeed better, but just the smallest notch possible, since Malgus other showings and scaling superseeds Yoda.

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They are angry because they have been forced to recognize that their hour has arrived; that the time has come to surrender power to Shimrra and the new order."

Last edited by JKBart on Jan 19th, 2018 at 08:51 PM

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Jan 19th, 2018 08:49 PM

BazookaMaster
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Bart wrecking house

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Azronger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
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an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero an bart an hero

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Jan 19th, 2018 09:19 PM