Like if you asked me how I learned programming and I said that I read every book on the subject, would you take that literally or realize that I'm probably being hyperbolic/loose with my words?
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There's no evidence pointing to that interpretation. That reading completely ignores Kun saying he blinded them. Non-literal isn't non-existent. In the case of the spell, they aren't blinded in any way, but as you say "forced to watch" which, and I don't know if you know this but, is kind of the complete opposite of being blinded. And how does that suggest mind control over paralysis? Being forced to watch and unable to react is the perfect description for paralysis. The comic also depicts them with wide terrified eyes, frozen by Kun's power. They were paralyzed. You yourself say that the supposed spell puts them into a trance and the Book of Sith says that their thoughts are supplanted by the voice of the caster. Nothing like what happens in either case.
Why would Kun deliver a speech to a room of people whose thoughts are supplanted by his own voice? That's kind of..... insanely stupid.
This isn't a dispute so much as a barefaced attempt at lowballing that I'm humoring. There's no reason at all for Kun to be lying and the speculation that he might be doing it "for the f*ck of it" is laughable, toothless and pathetic. If you do go down that route though, I suggest you also throw out literally anything any character says because they might be lying for no reason other than, y'know, because. For consistency. So unless you're prepared to have every character statement thrown out immediately in every future debate you have, I'd suggest you drop this line of thought.
But just to thoroughly crush this line of thought, the reason Kun is talking to the guy is because it's a freaking audio book, and that's how you get information across to the audience. There is no reason for Kun to lie because he's a fictional character. What the actual question is, is why would the author lie to the audience? Predictably, the answer is that they wouldn't. That's also the answer to your second point. There's no reason for the author to put in misleading dialogue without payoff. They wanted Kun to say that, so that the audience would know what had happened. And since audio is the sole way to get across information, it has to be accurate unless purposefully contradicted at some point in the story. You need it to be clear on what happened because that's all the audience has to go on. So again, there's no reason to disbelieve Kun's words. When Kun says he blinded every technician on Cinnagar, thats the sole thing that author wanted us to consider with regards to the topic. And with nothing contradicting it, it is unquestionably supposed to be considered accurate.
No-one cares about realism. Kun punches a ghost to death and vaporises people with beams of hatred. Screw realism. Do you have any idea how many things in Star Wars completely fall apart the moment you bring in how things should work realistically into it? TFA had people seeing planets explode in real time from across the galaxy, jesus this is small potatoes. But anyway, Kun attacked the docking bay, its possible that sent an alert out to the scanning technicians that drew all attention to him. Or maybe you have no clue what you're talking about or how any of this works and it is equally possible that every technician would scan Kun's arrival. Or, like Ziggy says and you have failed to refute, Kun couldn't be sure which technician would scan him and so blinded them all. The reason is inconsequential, the feat is what it is and no nitpicking about how dumb or non-sensical you think it is changes anything.
And most importantly, it doesn't matter what you think about it. Your opinion is worthless compared to the actual text. Exar Kun's opinion >>>>>>>>>> Yours.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Jul 13th, 2016 at 09:45 PM
The distinction: we're not saying that Kun is wrong because he could be lying - that just opens the possibility. The actual argument is the fact that it doesn't make any sense because you don't need a planet to monitor a single ship.
Or we can do the opposite, and you take Sidious's belief that he's "succeeded where all others have failed in taming the dark side" as gospel too.
So your reply to my previous claim of hypocrisy that you were accusing Sidious of lying is that Sidious didn't have as much information to compare himself to everyone before him, etc. Well, thanks for destroying your own point with this authorial intent angle. Remember the New Essential Chronology, which claimed that Sidious was the most powerful sith in galactic history? Do you think the author was thinking about subtly hinting that the in-universe historian was just wrong, or talking about political power? Nah.
There's a difference between violating real life empirical scientific relationships and violating basic logic. If you think we can do the latter, then how the f*ck do we generate a debate in the first place?
Aren't all of your arguments attempts to logically parse arguments too? Wait, doesn't this also kill your "Sidious can't really destroy the imperial palace" claim? After all, that's talking about his knowledge of history, .i.e. "realism".
It's almost like you're setting the precedent to destroy every one of your own positions that you've ever had here.
Except he says they all watched him land.
They need technicians spread out across the entire planet to scan a single ship's arrival, when there were likely hundreds of thousands arriving at the same time?
Yeah, he couldn't be sure that the technician on the other side of the planet wouldn't watch him below up a docking bay.
And Sidious's opinion >>>>>>>>>> yours by the same logic. Thanks.
Oh, in the Plagueis novel Sidious speculates that he's the most powerful Force user ever.
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Did you just equate generic space traffic to what scanners would pick up from a heavily armed Sith battleship coming in and blasting a docking bay? This is Empress Teta ffs, do you even know why he has to make sure he doesn't alert the city to his attack? I doubt that heavily.
The city is in war time, the Krath have been fighting numerous battles against the Republic navy, in this very system. They're on alert for any kind of attack by invading ships. A Battleship is going to be the immediate source of attention for towers who are on alert for warships.
You're also hilariously ignoring that when the Jedi Star Sabers attacked, they were immediately picked up and the entire city rallied its forces in a counter-offensive. This is literally just after Exar Kun finds his way to the Iron Citadel and he uses the Jedi attack as another distraction whilst he makes his own progress.
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Because they were forced to watch, paraylsis alone doesn't force you to do anything. If you were looking at your shoes, or nodding the **** off, you wouldn't see jack shit. Evidently Kun's spell forced them to watch what Kun wanted them too. So yeah mind control. And like by controlling someone's mind you can make them do different shit, like force them to watch something, or make them fail to respond to what they are seeing...
But nah I expect Kun has a spell for each and every one.
And how do you think such countermeasures work? You'd have squads of technicians (in this case) watching out for a particular zone, and alerting the rest of the city to possible attack. Tell me, how exactly would someone on the other side of the city "watch" Exar Kun lower his ship, and how the f*ck are they all conveniently watching him and not every other ship that landed in the city at the exact same time?
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It is obviously a network of systems, as Exar Kun hears the verbal alert from other towers when the Jedi Starsabers attacked Cinnagar. It's a single system with towers all across the city. Exar Kun 'blinded' every scanning technician that detected his approach to the planet and stopped any of them from sounding an alert so the Krath fleet could intercept him.
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Even if it was just Kun disabling Cinnegar's tracking technology, that'd still be pretty good.
Still, Force-flash is not a dark side technique (it's mostly used by Jedi in DNT/LotF/FotJ), so that can't be it. I'm on board with the hypnosis/TP argument. I don't know why it's hard to accept, anyway. Lately, it seems like people aren't willing to take on board any new (big) showings.
Registered: Aug 2014
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The following shows Wedge Antilles wondering that the Emperor's powers had 'compelled' the witnesses of the Lusankya's burial to 'forget' the incident, but also considers it more likely that the witnesses were killed:
Here we have confirmation of Palpatine's 'mind-fogging powers' at work:
So we have clear precedence for powerful Sith sensing a mass of witnesses to an event and the following 'fogging' of their collective minds.
In case anybody fails to grasp the sense prowess of Exar Kun:
He's evidently capable of replicating the feat, and no, appeals to character fallibility regarding the statement are not persuasive when said statement is bound to a purely audio media. In which character statements are used as direct explanations for story development purposes.
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Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
It's evidently a network of scanners across the city all alert for an enemy fleet attack, Kun states he had an effect on every scanning technician in Cinnagar, blinding all of them. If it was so impossible, Palpatine wouldn't have accomplished the same bloody thing.
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Registered: Aug 2014
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He can make appeals to common sense in a laughably fantastical IP as he wishes, but then we're suddenly scrutinizing every feat that is even remotely vague, using that logic.
He made every witness to the event forget what they saw, Exar Kun is doing the same thing. All of these scanning technicians are working on a network together, if one of them sees, they all do. As evidenced by 1.Exar Kun's very specific choice of words. 2.The fact Kun himself hears an alert sounded on the network about a Jedi attack.
Moreover, Exar Kun states he foresaw everything that happened, meaning he'd already planned it in advance using farsight.
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Last edited by AncientPower on Jul 14th, 2016 at 11:41 AM
And yet I'm seeing multiple appeals to "common sense" (read baseless assumptions) in attempting to quantify the number of technicians present, and how the system of traffic control functioned.
Registered: Aug 2014
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Lol we have evidence of how their system works, its a network that is monitored by technicians. The population is 310,000,000,000, thats a lot of scanning and monitoring, even moreso during a war with a super power.
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Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.