Registered: Aug 2016
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
While I agree with LeGenD that Valkorion>Sidious, the notion of him being above The Ones is ludicrous. The Son isn't an expression of the Dark Side, he practically IS the Dark Side.
"Xendor told me he once journeyed to a dead world where the Force was worshiped as a triad of divine beings. The Daughter was the Light Side. The Son was the Dark Side. And the Father? The Father was the Force itself, perhaps."
The Son and Daughter are stated to be the physical incarnation of the Dark Side and Light Side respectively.
The Ones have power enough to create entirely new worlds, hence the existence of Mortis. The Father even says that they have the power to tear the fabric of reality, something neither Valkorion or Sidious are capable of.
Enough with this Valkorion>The Ones bullshit now.
Last edited by darthbane77 on Oct 23rd, 2016 at 07:24 AM
The Son had a role in canon chapters of Star Wars Saga. Therefore, his evaluation at official capacity could directly influence Palpatine's standing in the lore at that point in time.
Valkorion, on the other hand, doesn't have a role in canon chapters of Star Wars saga. Therefore, his evaluation at official capacity cannot influence Palpatine's standing in the lore in direct manner.
It all comes down to your perception. TOR content acknowledged the existence of Celestials and their creations in ancient times. This is a tacit recognition of existence of The Ones as well. Valkorion's hype is regardless of that. So...
A thread, long ago. I thought that put an end to the whole "hur dur, Nihilus can instakill with Drain!" theory.
How come? Any feat or type of hype Valkorion has, Sheev has replicated or can get scaling from it. Yoda was always the near-equal to Sidious, so logically we'd assume he's superior to Valky.
Affect him? Sure. But be enough to net Valkorion the win? I doubt that. I mean Dooku had the Force Reserves to keep on fighting despite being drained by Talzin and then electrecuted by Sidious. We know Yoda, as a Force user, is substantially ahead of him.
There's also the question of if Valkorion would abuse his Drain. He doesn't seem to spam it so much as you claim he would against Yoda. It's just not his modus operandi. He might use it, but definitely not in a majority of cases.
Krayt had several circumstances to his favour, however. And he wasn't even draining Luke, he was only draining Abeloth and that still injured him pretty significantly.
To be honest, it is not my intention to prove superiority of Palpatine and/or Valkorion over The Ones. I am just responding to arguments of Sheevites in the same token as they always have in another thread. This one: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...=6#post15977466
They deserve a taste of their own medicine. I am using their logic against them.
By the way, The Son and The Daughter are not Dark and Light Sides themselves. This is an interpretation of some readers and/or characters.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Oct 23rd, 2016 at 07:30 AM
Anyway, the quotes which put The Son > Sidious/Valkorion/any Darksider ever
The Father: "My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other. Therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites."
Anakin Skywalker: "As a sanctuary?"
The Father: "And a prison. You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children… and realize that they could tear the very fabric of our universe."
The Clone Wars: Overlords
The Son was not a Sith -- his powers existed beyond the domain of the Sith Lords.
Encyclopedia: Son
Credit to DMB
Valkorion hasn´t anything that reconnected any of the Sidious(and Plagueis9 > him quotes.
He was in search of a suitable replacement and found one in Anakin Skywalker. Therefore, he attempted to manipulate the Jedi with a scary story when they met.
That is very similar to Valkorion's manipulation of The Outlander. He also boasted that his children are dangerous and reckless and must be stopped before they inflict unacceptable losses and/or damage.
Another loophole is Abeloth. She was more powerful than either The Son or The Daughter. The Father conveniently forgot her while making that statement?
See? Very easy to find loopholes.
Valkorion is officially a being of unfathomable power.
Your argument is moot.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Oct 23rd, 2016 at 07:45 AM
What makes Sidious' lightning so great? He pushed Yoda but Yoda got pushed by ****ing Dooku, he got overpowered by Windu, Marek literally handled him and he barely had an edge on Talzin.
Vitiate overwhelmed Revan, 1-shot Arcann, casually curbstomped a Strike Team of the most powerful Jedi alive, wiped out an army of Zakuul Knight and yes, he wiped out all ships around him.
Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites
Yoda didn't get pushed by Dooku, lmao. And Sidious didn't get overpowered by Windu; it was the other way around, lmao. And the only thing Marek succeeded at was making Sidious horny, lmao. And Talzin is an unknown; it's a good feat for her, not a bad one for Sidious, lmao.
Read up on the character before you make such misinformed claims.
Bending a lightsaber blade is better than all of this. And yes, it did happen in the movie. Anyone with eyes to see will notice that the blade wavers a bit when Sidious blasts it with lightning:
Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites
And if anyone tries to dismiss it on the basis of it being "a movie mistake", they will have to get the special effects team's who worked on RotS nod on that. There is an entire novel personally line-edited by George Lucas supporting it.
Yoda was slow at bringing his raw power to bear in a confrontation; his age had caught up with him during the era of Anakin Skywalker.
Episode II novelization pointed out that Count Dooku's Force Lightning pushed Yoda's defenses to its limits initially but he gradually settled down.
Episode III film (and novelization) - both demonstrated the fact that Yoda was unable to handle the initial burst of Palpatine's Force Lightning, even though he came to challenge the Sith Lord. However, Yoda brought his raw power to bear more effectively afterwards.
Mace Windu's performance against Palpatine remains a subject of contention. Some argue that Windu legitimately dominated Palpatine; others argue that Palpatine threw the fight. Not expanding on it, but the fact that this contention continues to exist, doesn't bodes well for Palpatine in the long-term.
Galen Marek managed to deflect Palpatine's Force Lightning more effectively than Yoda regardless of that. Credit where due. More importantly, this example suggests that you don't have to be Yoda to handle Palpatine's Force Lightning.
Literally disintegrating a Lightsaber with Force Lightning is even better than that? Right? Well, Exal Kressh accomplished that.
And guess what? Vitiate's Force Lightning overwhelmed Lightsaber-augmented defenses of 4 powerful Jedi (simultaneously). What became of those Lightsabers is open to interpretation but they were not visible in the scene depicting those Jedi laying unconscious on the ground in the end. In-fact, DarthAnt66 presented evidence of Tol Braga's Lightsaber bending during the ordeal in one of the threads.
Now dry those tears.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Oct 23rd, 2016 at 12:27 PM
He blocked his attack "far from easily". And no, Sidious got overpowered, Windu is constantly able to push his lightsaber towards him and deflect the lightning back in his face. Windu was overpowering him. Marek blocked Sidious' lightning and Sidious was unable to overwhelm his tutaminis, whereas Revan and Arcann got chumped by inferior versions of Vitiate. Talzin is just another example of Sidious' lightning failing to be decisive.
No it isn't. Unless you think Satele and Malgus cracking a lightsaber blade is equally as impressive. Or Exal Kressh disintegrating Thanaton's lightsaber with lightning. That's just Windu's hands/grip shaking. You can see the base of it wobbling in Jackson's hands. Even the novel says that the blade is bending towards Windu, whereas in that clip Windu is pushing towards Sidious and if anything it's shaking in his direction.
Bending a blade isn't even remotely on par with Valkorion's feats anyway.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Oct 23rd, 2016 at 12:30 PM
Oct 23rd, 2016 07:10 AM
