Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Either way, it's obvious you can't remotely scale Dooku off of ROTS Yoda's showings.
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I love that you actually understand the story arc of the Jedi, most people gripe about Yoda depiction in the PT because he's so different awn he is in ESB which is actually the whole point; the Jedi had to be humbled and shaken out of their hubris by the Sith in order to be the monastic wise teachers that they were in the OT
He's much more powerful than them individually, but I'm not totally convinced he is so powerful he would merk them as a team. He has to split his attention between both of them, which takes a lot of brain power - as is seen during the fight, where he has to divert all his attention to Savage to use his lightning, before re-engaging Ventress.
Someone of Dooku's calibre pimp slapping two elite Force users at the same time is unprecedented, however far beyond them he may be on an individual or even collective basis. Your maths seems to make sense on paper, but does that mean in practice it's going to work out? I think there's a reason Sidious is among the only Sith who have that kind of showing. The only others were brief bursts of rage from Savage and Ventress.
As you've argued already, it only takes Dooku one finger to constrict Ventress - in fact, since you no longer believe in that showing, Dooku needs to duel and Force push her first, then ragdoll her. Equally you've suggested it took him little effort to constrain Savage.
How is it that in his many moments of respite (they engaged him one at a time for the most part) he didn't just pin them both? I'm not convinced that them having lightsabers in their hands prevented that from happening. Unlike with Yoda, Dooku would have absolutely no inhibitions from pinning them both if he could.
Anyway... I think I'm being a little generous here. Let's just go straight to the evidence and look at this practically. A Force user's command of the Force is the core factor in how the fight will play out. It factors into both TK and dueling.
In terms of both TK and dueling, there are numerous quotes suggesting that Sidious toyed with the Maul brothers (I believe you're familiar with them). So, whether they're attacking him with lightsabers or the Force, they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning, right?
Let's compare that to how a rookie Savage and Ventress are described as matching up to Dooku:
And there's others describing Dooku as too powerful for them to beat/was powerful enough to escape. So, from what we can tell, Dooku "barely" had "the edge" over their combined might.
Going by this description, if Dooku was faced with Darth Maul (a clearly superior combatant to Ventress) and a much more experienced and well trained Savage, his defeat would be certain.
You make the excuse that "if it was just a Force fight" - but it is a Force fight. Their command of the Force manifests not just in their TK, but in their dueling skill, and all parties here have demonstrated an interest in training their dueling skill as best as they can.
The difference between Sidious and Dooku is that, when he's fighting Maul and Savage, it doesn't matter what category we're discussing - he will dominate.
Dooku, on the other hand, would surely lose a lightsaber contest not by merit of a skill or physical deficiency (Sidious is an old midget with less lightsaber experience than Dooku), but because his command of the Force isn't greater than Maul and Savage's combined. Similarly, his command of the Force regarding TK isn't greater than their's combined, and I see no evidence to suggest as much. Whatever his power with TK is, it barely saved him from Savage and Ventress, so surely it won't save him here, let alone against Sidious.
I also believe Yoda wanted to kill Dooku... that doesn't mean he has to adhere to the most efficient method of killing him. He isn't a Sith. There are countless scenarios where party X could kill party Y using TK, but chooses to kill/maim them in a different way. This is especially characteristic of Jedi, because they aren't vicious butchers who ragdoll and rip apart their opponents with TK: they aren't even encouraged to grip their opponents with TK, only manipulate the environment around them to win, e.g throwing objects or deflecting lightning back to the sender. The most they tend to do, if they're behaving, is send a wave of Force energy at their enemy.
You're always falling into this trap of "if he could have, he would have" - but if you evaluate what is going on in the mind of the character, their values and moral codes, rather than looking at their behaviour through the lens of a battle forum scenario, you would see why not everything happens the way that'd make most practical sense.
Yoda's goal is to kill Dooku, but he's not going to Force choke/ragdoll him to do it. Again, he's not a Sith. He resorted to using his lightsaber because he wouldn't be able to defeat Dooku just by passively deflecting every Force attack that comes his way. You're assuming Yoda is willing to employ every form of brutal violence to gain victory, when really, Jedi are incredibly restrained Force users at the best of times.
I'll concede Dooku has better accolades than Maul, especially considering the ones you posted below comparing them directly. But I don't think comparing their bouts against Obi-Wan is a great comparison: Obi-Wan's style plays directly into Dooku's hands, meanwhile Soresu is your best bet for stonewalling Juyo. On the other hand, Maul's fighting style and personal attributes are far more problematic for Dooku than Obi-Wan's, due to his impressive striking power, fanatical levels of aggression, choppy, unpredictable striking patterns etc.
Anyway, whether Dooku beats Maul and by how much is one debate. You need to prove he can emphatically defeat Maul and Savage with regards to telekinesis, with such a disparity that a Sidious who, not toying around, not smiling and laughing, but really trying to kill Dooku, cannot break his Force shields and ragdoll him. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Maul was also intended to take the reigns from Sidious should he need to one day, and was a real apprentice from day one. Your quote doesn't say Dooku has equal Force potential to Yoda, it says he's universally respected and one day would have been a Master on par with Yoda... in an unknown capacity. Given the context of Dooku's description - his reputation in the Order - it seems like the quote is saying one day Dooku would have had the same respect as Yoda among the Jedi, but instead of attaining that reputation, he joined the Jedi's enemies. Similar to the quotes saying Yoda and Mace should be held in equal regard as council members.
Lol, even if we take the quote the way you want it to be taken, it's saying that because Dooku left the Jedi, he would never be on par with Yoda. Now, that's ridiculous, because when Dooku became a Sith, his power increased, he developed a wider range of combat skills, and he was freed of his Jedi restraint. Your interpretation makes no sense, because as usual, you're ignoring context.
I agree. Hence, I don't think you've got logical chops to pull this off.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”