As I've made clear, "don't have growth" isn't needed here, so to argue I'm clinging to it is illogical, what makes the quote indocation clear is that then having a shorter fights is a result of them being very good fighters compared to there tcw incarnations who had longer or as feloni says prolonged lightsaber fights indicates clearly they've grown. The growth just reinforces this.
And the shorter fight isn't just that they progressed, it's that combined with them having fought each other and knowing each other's moves, combined with the fact that this fight was portrayed in a different set of way than usual fights.
Also Maul "not having as much going for him" doesn't remotely mean he decreased as a combatant. Him being undid by never letting Gomes kenobi wouldn't change with sod maul who has the exact same problems. The quote still doesn't indicate that he himself decreased.
Kenobi and maul not being equals and their being a gap(which was still exaggerated massively by the style of fitting that was opted for) doesn't at all contradict them both growing which is made clear by feloni's statement, so it doesn't at all disprove or counter my argument.
They're different explanations but they aren't contradictory.
Also, I never said you were suggesting anything about kenobi not growing so I'm not sure why you feel the need to restate that
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Because you're not biased at all in favor of Darth Maul
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Last edited by samappo on Mar 29th, 2017 at 10:17 AM
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Can you provide a source showing that Sidious didn't plan to be defeated?
Yes, you are correct. He could not penetrate Windu's defenses since the Jedi Master was using Vaapad to equalise the fight, as well as shatterpoint (from Anakin) to break Sidious' defenses. However, once Sidious unleashed his lightning, it was too much for even Vaapad to handle:
Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.
Palpatine’s eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."
"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny."
As you can see, when Palpatine unleashes enough power of the dark side, even Vaapad can't stop it. Palpatine had the fight in his hands the whole time.
Don't give me the 'one person won, one person lost, deal with it' nonsense. Maul lost to Kenobi, no excuses. Maul lost to Sidious, no excuses. Maul lost to Kenobi, no excuses.
As soon as you start typing out your explanation and context, you become what you're critiscing. I was trying to explain that Palpatine controlled the overall event, and you say I'm using excuses. Should that not apply to you to?
As I showed above with my quote from the novelisation, Palpatine was perfectly capable of killing Mace with his lightning, so two against one is irrelevant.
This is like 'does God exist'. I'm the atheist and you're the believer. Neither of us have definitive proof. You can't definitively prove Tano lived (through sources and not your reasoning or opinion not backed by official sources) and I can't definitively prove that she's a force ghost. So let's just let go of this one.
'Lucky to survive Windu' .... oh lord.
Orchestrating events doesn't make you a coward.
Hardly the description of a coward.
I've addressed Sidious.
Yoda is not a dipshit. In AotC he was smashing Dooku. Dooku just used a distraction to escape because he knew he was going to die. Plus, I don't have a definitive quote for this, but I have heard, possibly taken from the comic containing the fight or the novelisation, that Yoda was holding back as well since he was reluctant to kill his former apprentice.
Also Yoda is a 9 in lightsaber combat, the only other one being Sidious. So he clearly outclasses Dooku.
Sooo I could say Maul getting ragdolled by Sidious or the fact that Sidious could execute Maul at any moment is irrelevant because we know that Sidious wouldn't do that? And that Maul couldn't die yet because he dies in Rebels? Okay....
Don't care for excuses Quan, 'Maul disarmed him and had him at his mercy.' doesn't cut it. Maul was the superior fighter, but guess what? Using your own medicine against you. Kenobi won, Maul lost. Get over it.
Palpatine made a falser error of judgement concerning Vader's feelings. Big deal.
Are you implying that Palpatine didn't know pain or something? It feels like in your ever so annoying biased explanation of Maul's hardships, including him being cut in half, that you think Sheev was some lightweight who couldn't take pain?
Plagueis made him survive on an extremely cold world, so much so that he developed ways in the force to deal with it that even Plagueis didn't know how to use.
Sidious also got bitten by Maul, drawing blood, and he didn't care in the slightest.
Not to mention in the latest book that was released, Vader actually falls down and Sidious helps him up with what Vader muses as unnatural strength.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
For what ?
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Lords of the Sith, here's the quote.
He grasped it two-handed again, preparing another blow, but she reared up hard, bucking, and flung him to the floor. He landed near his Master, who grabbed him by the arm and heaved him to his feet with uncanny strength.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Darth Maul is a good character and a powerful Sith Lord and duelist, but he's not invincible, and Sidious could ragdoll him. Oh that's right he did ragdoll him. Maul begged for mercy as well, so like, don't know why you're calling Sidious pathetic or anything.
Maul went from awesome Sith Lord who took on two Jedi Masters in silence to begging Sidious to let him live after getting toyed with then ragdolled.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Last edited by samappo on Mar 29th, 2017 at 02:55 PM
Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Sith shrine below the Jedi Temple
Of course.
But don't get why Quanchi is calling Sidious a coward and stuff.
__________________ The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design. - Darth Plagueis
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Your quote won't show up unless quick quoted. Annoying. It isn't up to me to disprove your Palpatine planned on losing theory. You have to first prove it. Your biased claims need to be verified. That's how it works. When guys clearly light saber duel unless proven we assume each party wants to win.
Maul lost due to being out of his prime. Context always matters. The rest has been discussed ad naesuem. Windu prevailed and Palpatine used his cunning to manipulate Anakin. End of story. If you feel otherwise prove it. You quote some book doesn't mean what you believe it does. You're only seeing what you want to like a religious fanatic.
Palaptine was unable to do so with his lightning and it was reflected back into his own face. Only when Anakin intervened that was when Sheev was successful with striking him with fl.
False. We don't assume the more outlandish one is true when nothing has been shown visually or implied it was a force ghost. All other times it was clear. You're reaching and even then that has nothing to do with Tano vs. Vader since it was the explosion not his skill in a duel, kiddo.
He was lucky to survive since it was by mere chance Anakin intervened. He relied on the help of another to gain the advantage on Windu.
You do realize cowardice has nothing to do with skill level of a warrior.
Dooku being in a tier below Yoda only makes him more the moron. You also claim he may have held back despite the gravity of the situation which affected the entire galaxy. A Jedi aren't supposed to give into emotion so the leader of the Jedi aka the supposed wisest you claim even fell victim. Thanks for the assist. He's an idiot since he either held back or just plain didn't deliver against an inferior opponent.
Maul's fate wasn't tied to rebels prior to their meeting in clone wars or SoD. That's the difference since Kenobi's fate was the first Star Wars movie. Do you understand the difference and they were free to kill Maul off at any point and that his fate hadn't been set in stone whereas Kenobi's was.
Maul lost due to being overconfident and not pressing. I have never denied this as always I go by the facts.
Plaguies isn't canon yet. I'm also saying Palpatine trying to flee from a one on one situation against a tier 9 peer is cowardice.
At the end of the day Maul has to get credit for having the courage to go against someone he knew was "the strongest being in the galaxy", something neither Vader or Dooku even dreamed of doing.
And as for him begging for mercy, no one ever considers the psychological aspect of it. Maul was basically raised by Sidious, he worshipped him. Darth Plagueis notes Sidious and Maul had a "filial bond". I doubt Maul ever feared death, and physical pain is something that doesn't phase him.
Most likely it was the thought of dying at the hand of his father/demigod that made him unravel.
Sidious on the other hand was ready to call it quits immediately after getting a hint that Yoda could be as strong as him. Classic bully/coward behavior.
Maul has his faults but he is a warrior and has honor. Sidious is a slimy politician.
Actually, Vader dreamed about doing it. Like, all the time.
While this is true...
Filoni's commentary on the matter outright invalidates your first claim, and considering how he was screaming up to the credits, I'd say the second is also pretty void.
Oh you mean like when Maul screamed in terror begging for Sidious to stop torturing him, with a clear look of fear in his face? Yeah that's the very definition of bravery.
Anyway, cowardice is honestly a common trait among Sith, so it's not like it matters.
Mar 28th, 2017 07:15 PM
