While I appreciate the effort put into this, it seems unnecessary. The novel goes to great lengths to express how fvcked Luke's mental state is. I don't see the use in explaining something that's about as common as addition and subtraction problems. Still nice thread, structure and all that.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Re: Luke Skywalker vs Exar Kun: Context and Circumstances
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Whilst Luke Skywalker's mental integrity is questionable all the way until Specters of the Past, he is also more powerful than ever before:
Nor did he fail to summon all possible power in the fight:
One fallacy dealt with.
The relationship between Exar Kun's spirit and the Yavin IV Temples has already been explained in detail:
That's all they've ever been stated to do for him, funnily enough, Kyp Durron amped with a Temple is still feeble in comparison to when he's amped by Exar Kun:
The relationship between Exar Kun and Kyp Durron is simple, Lun is powerless withput a source of enerfy to draw from-that's Kyp-when he does have a reservoir of energy to replace his own long lost reserves, he can summon his own power, which is far greater than Kyp's own:
As is further explored here:
By now you might want to realise that Kyp Durron never obtained an amulet and it's highly likely that a protagonist from Shadow of Revan took said amulet.
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Nice discussion.
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Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Ood Bnar transformed into a tree-like form and drew power from the depths of planet Ossus to pull that off, and it is a feat of defense. He did not attack Exar Kun with raw power of that magnitude.
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__________________ ''It is necessary that I should die for my people; but my spirit will rise from the grave and the world will know that I was right." The Almighty Führer
Re: Re: Luke Skywalker vs Exar Kun: Context and Circumstances
And sadly he can't use the power if he's as mentally unhinged as he was when he fought Kyp and Kun. The quote in the blog summed it up fairly well:
"'Let me guess,' she said, the sarcasm gone from her voice again. 'Life as a Jedi has been a lot foggier than you ever expected it to be. You've had trouble understanding what you're supposed to do, or how you're supposed to behave. You've been gaining tremendous power in the Force, but more often than not you've been paralyzed with fear that you're going to use it the wrong way. Am I getting warm?'
Luke stared at her. 'Yes,' he said, not quite believing it. How had she known? 'That's it exactly.'"
-- Visions of the Future
So despite the fact that he's more powerful than ever(which is already more powerful than Exar Kun, as I've detailed in the blog), he can't use said power properly.
Given his poor mental state and the environment massively hindering him, that's quite frankly not going to be all the power he has to offer. And said power was still enough to shield his physical body entirely from any long lasting damaging effects of the Dark Side tendrils or lightning(refer to the blog for quotes) so it's fairly evident his Force defenses were at least somewhat successful.
KEK, you've practically given me a quote that says Exar draws on the Dark Side nexus of Yavin IV. Thanks.
Just because they stop his spirit from disolving doesn't mean they also can't be used as further amplification given how that's how Dark Side nexuses operate.
Anyways, the very power of the nexus isn't feeble compared to Exar Kun's; Kyp Durron's sense abilities, even amped by the Temple, just aren't as good as Exar's. He was using the Force to search through the Yavin system for the Sun Crusher, and Kun simply helped him extend his thoughts.
Actually, that just means Exar has to use Kyp's own power in order to unleash his own techniques. It's still Durron doing the heavy lifting, given how I, Jedi identifies him as the one hurling Corran, Dark Apprentice notes it's his might, with Kun's weapons, and The Jedi Academy Sourcebook notes that Exar is simply boosting/unlocking Kyp's potential.
Keep in mind this was a novel written at a time where a rookie Jedi can overcome one of the greatest DS nexuses in the galaxy with Battle Meditation, with room to spare. And BMs and abilities to that effect actually unlock one's potential, allowing them to achieve far greater heights of power than they normally would in that moment.
And yet it notes Kyp possessed the "forbidden weapons of Exar Kun", which obviously means his amulet.
Always nice proving you wrong. I like how you failed to address Luke being canonically more powerful than Kun or overcoming him on an equal playingfield, though.
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Last edited by MythLord on Mar 21st, 2017 at 06:09 AM
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Re: Re: Re: Luke Skywalker vs Exar Kun: Context and Circumstances
So according to Mara Jade he's paralysed by fear, and we're going to take her claim over sources that state he's using all the power of the Force in the battle in question?
I guess I should start using Horn to claim Spirit Kun is so much more powerful than Luke that Horn had never even conceived of such prowess before.
I wouldn't at all argue against his fear over his power somewhat hindering him but not instances ehere he's directly dtated to have done the opposite.
More powerful than Exar Kun's powerless spirit, sure.
He's directly stated to have done do in the primary source on the matter.
The environment that so massively hinders them, that they can use said environment to massively amp themselves.
His spirit sustains itself off of the focusing points of the Temple designed to channel his power, yes. Nothing else is ever stated, so you can desperately grasp those straws all you like.
Given he's never stated to have done so in any canonical source, that's baseless speculation.
Yet the amplification Kun provides him outstrips that which he gains via the focusing point completely. This is no different than Traya in the Trayus Core, using it's power to boost her senses and farsight.
Of course he's doing the heavy lifting, he's the being dpminated and having Kun's powers exerted through. It doesn't change the fact that he was still only capable of some of his powers nor did Kyp ptovide enough of the energy to retain Kun's own lost reserves of energy. As is all stated in Sourcebooks.
An astute observation.
Which are the Sith techniques Kun taught him, he himself refers to them as weapons too but he clearly means powers.
Luke being canonically more powerful than his Spirit when he has no power means nothing. Luke sent him reeling with a surprise attack.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
When even LeG isn't buying your TOR wank, you know something's wrong. Try withstanding the destruction of a Sith superweapon that can atomise anything its path or a blast caused by Galen Marek unleashing all the power the Force within him.
I'll take over struggling to get up after being floored by a tree, kek.
I assume you mean senators.
Try ragdolling Starkiller, kek.
For once Leg is on the money, not even close.
Through having his powers focused through an intensifying amulet, itself amped by the concentrated dark energies of a Sith temple. Try blowing up Lyleks with carapaces harder than armor without amulets, nexi and some 15 years before his prime.
Sadly there isn't one, Vader trashes Kun in the feats department.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Were either of those supposed to compare to prowess that tanks supernova waves? The denial is strong.
A tree that has a far greater feat than anything Vader has ever accomplished.
His distant inferior enthralled and dominated the entire Sith people against their will and ripped their knowledge of sorcery from them. He was called Ajunta Pall.
I'm pretty sure shrugging off Odan-Urr's most powerful attack before one-shotting him, a guy who is more powerful than Thon, who could single-handedly Wall of Light an extreme Dark Side Nexus such as Ambria, whilst exhausted, is slightly more impressive than a single good feat against a guy who later subdues Vader completely.
Denial is the first step, Beni.
The amulet powered the Temple, not the other way around.
Exar Kun immediately grew more powerful, then went to stalemate Ulic, bedore gaining tremendous dark side powers, before stomping Odan-Urr and becoming even more powerful, gaining tremendous Sith knowledge and achieving his prime. Any kind of amp is absolutely negligible next to this power growth.
Blowing up Lyleks =/= Disintegrating potentially hundreds of Massassi Warriors.
You've yet to provide anything suggesting anything remotely close to that.
Evidently.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Luke Skywalker vs Exar Kun: Context and Circumstances
"All the power of the Force" clearly means all the power he could've mustered at that given moment.
Regardless, Luke himself has openly agreed with Mara's observation and deemed it correct. He'd know more about himself and his hinderences/weaknesses than Kun's yandere.
A claim that has been debunked God knows how many times.
Thankfully, this isn't one of those instances since it states Luke couldn't control his growing fear. Not to mention his emotional confliction
Not at all. "All the power of the Force" is obviously not just hyperbolic, but is referring to the power he could've mustered in that moment, unless you'd have me believe Corran Horn defended himself more adequately against Kyp's assault than Luke could have, which is absolutely hilarious.
When they actively draw on it, which you have no proof Luke did and it's completely out of character for Luke to do so. Otherwise, a DS nexus hinders any Light Sider who doesn't want to run the risk of tapping into it and giving into his anger/the dark side; something that is also been stated in Luke's exchange with Kun and Kyp.
You don't need it to be stated in order to use freaking common sense, but that's a skill long lost to you, I'm sure.
Kun isn't so much amplifying him as allowing him to see further, more clearly, opening his mind. That doesn't mean his raw power is > the power of the nexus.
It isn't Exar Kun's power. I really don't care how dense you are or how much you want to deny it, the actual primary source states it's Kyp's might using Kun's weapons. The Jedi Academy Training Manual also notes that Sith spirits can only possess the powers of their hosts; so it's not Kun's power being unleashed through Kyp, it's Kyp's power being magnified by Kun.
Kyp is more than capable of matching/surpassing Kun's own reserves; it's just Kyp's power isn't enough to completely reanimate Exar's body or release him from his trap.
Something you're seemingly incapable of.
Possibly.
It means Kun couldn't have overcome Luke without Kyp's power, darling; yet Kun's power is >>>>> Kyp's according to you and your fallacious logic and somehow Durron played a much bigger role in that contest than Exar, who only served to cheapshot Skywalker and amplify Kyp.
And assuming Luke is less powerful than Exar, said surprise attack wouldn't have made Exar Kun flee like a b!tch and practically admit defeat. But it did.
My goodness, are you attempting to suggest that because Kun didn't die to Bnar's attack he can tank supernovas as well? What kind of quarter wit are you?
And that same tree was more powerful than Kun.
Retconned lel, Soruz Syn's own accounting states that they achieved authority by undermining their power structure and killing their king, garnering respect for their power, not enforcing it.
Well done for changing the goalposts there lel, your point was in regards to Kun attacking them, not the other way around. Vader's superior defences have already addressed, and in regards to "subduing Vader completely" is concerned - never happened.
Quite, and the subsequent road to retardation has been mapped out extensively by yourself over the years.
The temple was designed to augment and focus the dark side all on its own.
What about an amp that magnified his hatred one hundred thousand times
Quite, obliterating far more durable targets without the aid of a suped up death ray is much more impressive.
Sure thing darl, I'd say you should have stuck to the spirit feats and power-scaling, but when they've been debunked beyond belief I can understand your decision.
Mar 20th, 2017 10:45 PM
Try withstanding the destruction of a Sith superweapon that can atomise anything its path or a blast caused by Galen Marek unleashing all the power the Force within him.
