And to weigh in on your debate with Myth if I may:
This does not say Luke rallied all the power of the Force, but all the powers (plural) i.e. abilities, not holistic strength, but rather all the powers Yoda and Kenobi had taught him. Which is not to say that he was at all applying these techniques to the best of his capabilities.
__________________
Last edited by Beniboybling on Mar 21st, 2017 at 03:23 PM
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Luke Skywalker vs Exar Kun: Context and Circumstances
Can I just say I love how you have to team up to argue against me, as always, when did you two get married?
All the powers of the Force around him, which could even refer to the Focusing Point directly below him.
Luke agrees with her over-all statement about his choices and indecisiveness, what you're doing is attempting to massively reach and act as if Luke's completely incapable of anything.
You should have stuck to Sorcery, but apparently common sense has abandoned you.
You mean NewGuy01 pointing out that Horn might not have the full measure of Luke's power? Rofl. Horn's obvious hyperbole simply means Kun is much more powerful than they could deal with.
Yet he's fully capable of drawing on said power in the battle and walks into it determined to face down whatever is on the roof. Tjeir battle is even described as a titanic clash of powers.
Comparing telekinesis to the attacks they unleashed on Luke is straight up moronic.
You have no proof that Kun was even capable of doing so beyond anchoring his spirit to the Temples. Checkmate.
In all seriousness, the students state outright in Darksaber, not even a year after, that the Temples channel all kinds of Force energy, not just dark side energy.
Oh, I'm sorry for not jumping to baseless conclusions, I know that's your typical bread and butter in a Kun debate though.
He's literally stated to reinforce Kyp with his black-ice power.
It's both of their power combined, Kun's lack of reserves is made up for by Kyp's own energy and emotions, which he is stated to draw from.
If he's so massively dependent on Kyp's power then do explain how he's almost killing all the other students, by himself, whilst they were mutually amping themselves beyond their own imagination.
Source? That's never implied anywhere, if Kun's long lost reserves are restored he needs to drain power from the students, including Kyp. This is what releases him from his slumber.
Something you've lost all comprehensive ability for.
You're beginning to understand.
Yes, Kun as a spirit used Kyp as a means to strike down Luke, Kyp Durron did play a large role in that, but so did Exar Kun who isn't nearly as powerful as he was in life, as confirmed by OOU and IU statements, one of which comes from Veitch himself.
Except it took Spirit Luke combining his power with thirteen other Jedi to defeat Kun's spirit. But let's ignore that.
I love how personally you're taking this.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Not even close, Bnar is just extremely powerful in that state yet he didn't kill Kun with a blast, who was taken off-guard, he didn't even seriously injured him. Despite the fact he went on to outright incinerate Sedriss with a much less powerful Ossus.
The planet amped tree, yes.
They did this after killing Gruash.
Not to mention Ommin was dominating and enraging millions in Iziz, with his first display of power. Despite Iziz being a stronghold of Dark Side cultists. Yet Exar Kun had already surpassed Nadd's spirit, who was solely responsible for Ommin's power, before he'd even left Yavin IV.
I changed nothing, I'm displaying how powerful Urr was and Kun desrroyed him easily.
Never happened? Rofl, Sam Witwer's statements on the concepts of TFU3 don't weigh more than actual sources stating Starkiller outright defeated him.
Coming from a PT wanker this is hilarious.
Yes, but it didn't amplify the amulet, it was the other way around. Furthermore, the power was explicitly stated to come from his own heart.
Obvious hyperbole, it increased his rage and channelled it into Force Blasts. No such amp is relevant concerning the prime Exar Kun.
Far more durable? He was still capable of disintegrating them despite the fact they were alchemically designed to tank Republic artillery fire.
Love how you have to change the goal posts from Legends Vader to Canon Vader.
You can keep calling things debunked if that makes you feel better.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Luke Skywalker vs Exar Kun: Context and Circumstances
At least I found love with an actual living being, as oppose to a fictional character.
Powers; plural, as in abilities. And it wouldn't make sense for Luke to draw on the Dark Side nexus, both from an in-character perspective and the fact that to do so he'd have to give into his anger and desperation, something the text notes he isn't going to do.
Her overall statement being: a lack of control over his own fear leads to his inability to abuse the tremendous power Luke has at his disposal... Which is exactly what I'm arguing.
I'm not acting as if Luke is completely incapable of anything, so kindly stop with your strawman. Luke clearly is capable of doing something since, y'know, he successfully shielded his entire body from any physical damage from Kyp's lightning and Kun's tendrils.
My point is he isn't as capable as his power would imply he is, since his emotions don't allow it. This is tremendously backed up by the text in question.
Good, then we can finally have something in-common.
That is a point worth mentioning, but Corran's primary judgement of Kun's power came from him masking his very presence from Luke despite being in close proximity.
Yes; his connection to the Force isn't severed you dolt, so he can still draw on it. A titanic clash of powers also doesn't undermine or contradict the idea that Luke himself was hindered due to his emotional state. It just means even a weakened Luke possesses titanic power... Good hype.
I don't care if he's determined or not, he's still an emotional wreck because he's facing his best student and can't even control his growing fear.
I'd imagine Kyp is more capable with telekinesis, something he's displayed an aptitude for since he was a child, than Force lightning, to be honest.
So a bunch of Light Side trainees can tap into the Dark Side nexus' power, but Exar Kun can't?
Quote, please. It's firmly established to be "tremendous dark side energy". A Jedi is capable of drawing on the Dark Side of the Force and it's nexuses(Yoda: Dark Rendezvous), but they usually don't since, y'know, they're Light-Siders.
I think I've debated against Exar maybe... three times? And only twice with you. I don't have "typical bread and butter", but I know you do though. The butter's expired, btw.
Yeh, in the Sense department.
It's mostly Kyp, however, hence why every source primarily mentions Kyp's power using Exar's techniques and being boosted by Exar's BM or something along those lines.
He's massively dependant on Kyp's power when fighting Luke, not when fighting a bunch of trainees, lmao.
He's still awake, y'know. But Exar primarily yearns to re-animate/free himself from Yavin IV, which obviously takes more power than he's got even with his long-lost reserves restored.
Kun's role was amping Kyp and teaching him sh!t, which I acknowledge. It's Kyp's power, however, not Exar's.
Except it's never stated Luke needed the other thirteen of them; i I mean, a weaker Luke with the aid of a trainee Leia and baby severed Palpatine of the Force and controlled a Force Storm. I doubt he'd really need much assistance in severing the spirit of Exar Kun, someone who's canonically far and away inferior to Sidious.
Actually, if you think about it, Exar didn't start getting disintegrated by the Light Side energy until Luke came in, so Skywalker's actually doing the heavy lifting.
I'm not... I really couldn't care less about you or your TotJ fetish.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Cool. Still not nearly powerful as the blasts Vader endured. The one Ood unleashed on Sedriss being visibly much more potent kek.
Good, glad we cleared that one up.
Ah I see, so you've got an updated source?
Not remotely, he was only able to trigger pockets of anger across the city, by gathering the energies of the dark side nexus. None of which are implied to be Force sensitive. You keep making up feats AP and its getting old.
Less powerful than a frigate buster yeah.
Did I mention Witwer? I was referring a common sense reading of the text, you should try it.
You mean someone who doesn't have their arguments debunked and ridiculed at every turn?
Perhaps provide proof. And is that an omission that the power generated by the amulet does not come from the wielder?
And yet Kun being the darkest power in the galaxy isn't?
Give me one good reason why I shouldn't take it at face value, or anything close to it.
Orly? I'd appreciate proof. Not that it matters given the Twi'leks were made to fortify their cities against the threat of just a handful of Lyleks.
You never specified Legends or Canon darling, whereas from the outset I referred to Legends + Canon feats, because, as is standard, I am considering a composite.
No need darling, watching your constant failures provides me with all the happiness I need.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Luke Skywalker vs Exar Kun: Context and Circumstances
If Exar Kun was even in my top ten characters that might be funny.
I'm going to put some stake in KJA's writing abilities and say that your interpretation is invalid given that it would render half of the entire quote redundant. It's clearly referring to his powers in the Force, given he refers to his defensive techniques failing later in the same quote.
Then your entire argument regarding his mental condition is moot because his mindset takes until Specters to actually sort itself out. (Kinda, not really)
Incorrect, it was Kun masking his ass kicking of Horn from the hallway just outside from the entire hall of Jedi-including Luke.
Except Luke being hindered can apply to everything he's done until Specters.
Horn was also explicitly good with Tutaminis, your point?
Calling them trainees doesn't diminish them, lmfao.
Exar Kun's spirit is anchored to the Focal Points and sustains itself off of said power, that's it.
it's an over-all amplification of his powers, not on department, rofl.
I think Kyp being comparatively 'feeble' and a 'light breeze' without him is much more telling.
A bunch of trainees, one of whom goes on to be capable of exhausting Luke in combat. He was called Brakiss.
He's still a spirit.
Further cemented in a second source:
It's both and there's no arguing otherwise.
Streen was the one who caused actual damage to him and then banished his spirit after Kirana Ti and Dorsk 81 cut through him with lightsabers.
I'm convinced.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
The blasts Vader endured aren't even within the same scope as a supernova wave (it was implied to be more than one actually), which is what Bnar, calling upon the same energy source, was capable of enduring. Yet his attack on an off-guard Kun can't even injure the Sith Lord. In other words, Vader ain't got shit to throw at him.
Yes, you've failed to grasp basic concepts, yet again.
Given the text in reference is after taking control of the Sith prople, sure.
Lmfao, learn to read:
It doesn't mean he was restricted to inducing violence, that was only a single facet, as his powers are confirmed to dominate the people of Onderon:
Point being, this kind of scale of domination is a low showing for somebody as powerful as Exar Kun, yet Vader hasn't got anything to compare to such wide scale influence.
Dominating energies that ruined the surface of a planet whilst exhausted > blowing apart the already disintegrating bridge head of a Nebulon-B.
Or, y'know, him getting outright telekinetically dominated by the less powerful Galen Marek:
You keep saying that as if it's true, which it never is.
How the hell does my stating that the text directly credits Kun's own rage as the source of energy equate to the power not coming from the weilder?
You could read the comic? The Massassi Priest dons the Amulet and then the temple starts channelling power from him to unleash the Wyrm.
If only there were two other statements corroborating the statement from the comic.
Because if Exar Kun, who was already replacing Nadd as a great power in the galaxy, had his rage multiplied a thousand times, then another hundred thousand times, then he'd have destroyed the planet given that his distant inferiors with far lesser amplifications were destroying the cores of stars and manipulating solar flares.
He is stated in the Audio Drama to still be capable of reducing them to 'ashes' just before he recovers the Corsair, so yes he's capable of disintegrating what are essentially mutated tanks with Dark Side powers of their own.
Of course you are, because otherwise we both know this would have ended in your nth loss even sooner.
If 'failures' refer to my inability to lose to you in basically any discussion, then sure.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Uhuh, what Bnar unleashed on Kun wasn't even close to the full extent of his power. That should be quite obvious from the events of DE. And Kun didn't have shit on him either, lel.
That's not true for either of them, kek.
Uhuh, try to understand that he needn't TP every single person on the planet to exert dominance over the populace holistically. In which respect, his efforts in targeting pinpricks is all he has displayed.
He obliterated over a hundred meters length of intact frigate darling no matter how you attempt to lowball it, he also obliterated a horde of powerful Marek clones with a similar repulse, both of which are much more impressive than subduing some Sith spirits who no, where not responsible for the ruination of the planet.
By which point he'd been beaten in body and spirit, not an accurate showing at all, nor is their any strict evidence that the original was less powerful. Try again.
I guess in your position denial is the best form of medicine.
I see, so what your saying is that despite the amulet's power being contained with "it's heart", it's capable of channelling power in addition from external sources, like for example, the Sith temple? I think you're on to something here AP.
That's stated nowhere, rather it appears he is channelling and intensifying the power of the temple through the amulet, which only lends itself to my point.
There is no other statement that describes Kun as the most powerful darkness in the galaxy, naw.
Manipulating energies and obliterating matter exist on entirely different metrics, so this argument is flawed from the off, moreover there is no logic to what amounted to a battleship-sized amulet being inferior to a gauntlet fashioned by the same Dark Lord, nor the gauntlets Naga Sadow wore when he caused those solar flares. Finally given Nadd was by your own argument a shadow of his former self, we've no reason to believe Kun's even in Sadow's league.
Don't stop there I'd like to see the quote from the audio drama please.
Sure thing AP, next thing you'll be demanding that I use movie feats only.
Inability is the right word, you are indeed incapable of conceding to the reality of your own stupidity.
__________________
Last edited by Beniboybling on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 03:24 PM
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
He reached into Ossus and summoned its power to blast him, how is that not even close to the full extent of his power when he did the same thing to summon_an impenetrable Force barrier? You're losing it by the post.
Funny, because I own the book and it looks to me like you're just making up shit. Nor are the two statements regarding his rule mutually contradictive, he could have done both in sequence. You've got no basis for a retcon.
He was displaying the power in pinpricks of millions of people across the city, even a fraction of those millions is a greater feat against the masses than anything Vader has. Not to mention, this was his mere initiation into the dark side, he achieves even greater feats afterward.
Yes, I own the book and the entire bridgehead is disintegrating upon reentry, but he decides it isn't disintegrating fast enough and rips the remainder apart.
Once again, you're wrong:
Yet Thon is only the third most powerful Jedi of his era, beneath Urr and Baas.
Meaning he lost, glad we agree.
Starkiller is stated to gain the original's incredible Force power and grew more powerful throughout the novel, where he defeats Vader there too.
Hilarious, because you're clearly on your desperate last foot.
You are a genuine moron:
He is using the amulet to fire up the Temple's focal point and summon the Wyrm beneath. It's obvious.
The TCSWE states he's the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith up to and of his time, in the original Fact File #1 he's also granted the title of Most powerful of all the Sith Lords in an article referring to Sith of the time. Tales of the Jedi is merely echoing these statements.
Except the amp used by Sadow and Keto to cause supernovas is actually more like activating a Sith alchemy superweapon with their power and ruing the core of the star. Exar Kun on the otherhand, according to your logic, is literally having his rage multiplied a thousand times and then having that multiplied a hundred thousand times.
If he can shine with more power than Keto's sorcery has ever afforded her, before gaining tremendous dark side power and then becoming even more powerful off of the Dark Holocron then he is easily capable of doing the same thing that Sadow had achieved. Yet here we are with you claiming that Exar Kun unleashing his dark rage × 1k × 100k wouldn't be focusing far more power than either of his canonical inferiors could have ever been focusing through the Corsair.
Nadd at the time had been feeding off of centuries of his own descendants and claiming their power, before absorbing the powers of trapped Jedi Masters from a crystal. Exar Kun just needed to create him a new body capable of sustaining him and he'd have returned to life.
Nadd is confirmed to be far more powerful than Sadow is, regardless of Sadow' real state at the time (sources conflict) before becoming even more powerful over a century of Onderonian rule later, by which time he's stated to become an even greater Sorceror than Marka Ragnos, who is indisputably Sadow's superior.
Context: He's threatening his very first disciple, who was the first to be subjected to his alchemy. This is when they discover the Corsair, after Kun has already been using Sith alchemy.
A Legends debate is preferable, where you don't have to try and pick & mix his Canon feats whilst ignoring some of his worst showings.
Coming from the one getting schooled, this is cute.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Indeed.
This is in reference to Ajunta Pall.
I'd have Urr, Baas and Thon all above Nyriss given Thon's immense Ambria feat and the fact the other two are canonically more powerful than him. Revan doesn't really matter in this debate though.
No such restrictions were placed on any of them. It is also highly telling that the ancient Sith would proclaim Exar Kun the true Dark Lord of the Sith to usher in a Golden Age of the Sith, if they didn't think Exar Kun had the strength to surpass the Sith Emperor.
It's seriously lacking, if anything.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Mar 21st, 2017 03:18 PM
