It's entirely likely. Look at Mace vs Sidious. He goes in wanting to arrest him and not kill him. He changes his mind at the end after seeing Sidious' power.
Same with Dooku in Dark Disciple. Early in the war, Mace obviously didn't want to kill Dooku. The more terrible acts he committed, he eventually decided that they should assassinate Dooku.
Here, Mace fights Grievous but doesn't want to use a dark-side power. Due to this restriction, Grievous gets away. Next time they meet, Mace isn't making the same mistake, so opts to use the power.
What's your reconciliation of the event, btw? That Mace taking down Grievous like this was a one-off moment?
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Grievous having to ensure the Chancellor was escorted to the Invisible Hand and not thinking a Jedi would use a Darkside power on him stayed on the ship by the Chancellor's side and draws his sabers likely in preparation for a charge or saber throw from Windu allowing Mace all the time he needed to employ Force crush on him.
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
Tell me how Grievous would have avoided that dark-side power, even if he got a written letter by Sidious a week earlier telling him it would happen during this fight. Grievous has no defense against that kind of attack. It's not something he can dodge - it's internal. He could run around and circles and still get ****ed. He could race to Mace but would still get ****ed. There's no situation here where Grievous doesn't get ****ed. Force choke isn't a technique that needs preparation, either.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
There's no way you can avoid a power like that once it's used on you. You can only defend against it if you're a Force user or tanks its' effects if you're not. He would have engaged Mace before he could have gathered the necessary focus and energy to utilize the ability on him. It's why Mace chose to engage with him blade to blade rather then incapacitate him with the Force in LoE, he knew what the General was capable of. From my view anyways.
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
Mace seemed to believe he wouldn't have been able to summon the necessary focus and energy to utilize the ability on Grievous before he would have engaged him in lightsaber combat.
I personally believe that's accurate given the fact that Mace was able to cross the distance between the two ends of the train car in the time it took for Grievous to grab his lightsaber blades and ignite them and Grievous is able to move his hands faster then a hypersonic blaster bolt ( this occurs in the same novel so no discrepancies across the lore to worry about ).
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
"I worked Jack in" - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
Last edited by UCanShootMyNova on Aug 6th, 2017 at 04:22 AM
Nothing states that and I never claimed it did. The fact that he didn't utilize the ability when he's shown himself perfectly willing to is what indicates that.
I find you're reasoning, that being that Mace is a flip flopper when it comes to these sorts of decisions, to be rather unconvincing considering he was perfectly willing to kill Dooku and Sidious in both instances where he attempts to arrest them. He's only offering them the chance to surrender peacefully as that's what's in line with his Jedi principals. In neither instance does he extend this same courtesy to Grievous moving to attack the general before he's even ignited his blades in LoE.
Answered this in my last response.
You're free to feel that way if you like.
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
@kbro: I assume you're being sarcastic, but if not, Grievous was thrown out of the room. Obviously a Force push won't kill Grievous - it won't kill any powerful being - but we're discussing other powers here.
Great point though that Maul used it effectively against Grievous w/o him dodging.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
So I assume that was your final rebuttal? You usually end these things with a statement indicating the opposition is inferior if they are still sticking with their original stance after you've seen fit to reveal your own "enlightened" position to them which would indicate that you've finished.
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
You're just being intentionally ignorant. I can't fathom you personally believe what you're saying, but just want to say it because you don't want to concede.
Mace goes into a fight with Grievous thinking he can just take him down with a lightsaber. He's not expecting a threat great enough that he can't kill him, so there's no reason to start off with some dark-side attack without testing all his options first. That would be totally out of character for him and dangerous without testing other options first. Jedi never do that. Yoda didn't start out against Dooku trying to hurl rocks at him at bigger and bigger size, even though that might be the most effective course-of-action. He's first going to do what's within Jedi values, and then stretch them if that's not working.
Anyway, next time he sees Grievous, he's not going to try for the lightsaber fight again, since that was ineffective the first time. The ship is about to leave so he needs Grievous down quick, too. Mace opts to use a dark-side power he knows will be effective, which is again consistent with the Jedi losing their values in war-time as Sidious planned, to take down Grievous instantly. Grievous, without a defense, is completely destroyed.
Time, which you're citing, has nothing to do with it whatsoever. That's completely unsupported and inconsistent with all other material. Force choke is not a prolonged power. This is a fact. Your current perception of events doesn't work on any level of logic or consistency. You're undeniably wrong and it's best to concede.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
You're free to have that opinion if you like, though I feel it's my responsibility to inform you that your assumption is incorrect.
Mace knows what Grievous is capable of since any Jedi who survived their engagement with the general had to report back to the Council. I disagree that he would try to defeat Grievous in saber combat when he himself tends to underestimate his own abilities ( unless you believe that his assessments of Vastor and Depa in comparison to him are accurate ). He's pragmatic. He's going to do whatever's necessary to end the war and save lives. Killing the CIS's best general who's already committed genocide against multiple planets is going to help do that. He's not going to be going back and forth on this. If he's willing to cut down an unarmed opponent he's willing to blow up their organs.
All Force user's require time to gather their energy to employ an action via the Force. If they didn't then every single Force user that ever faced Grievous would have beaten him easily with a mindtrick they employed midcombat. My apologies, I regret to inform you that will not be occurring.
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
Mace doesn't have a sheet that says how skilled Grievous is. He knows he's good enough to killed Jedi, great. He also knows he's fought Obi-Wan a trillion times and never killed him once. He also knows Kit Fisto fought him and survived the encounter.
So you think Mace is going to not even attempt to take down Grievous as a Jedi would and go right to dark-side techniques? Patently stupid and completely out of character, unless you think Mace is going to treat Grievous as an even greater threat than Sidious.
Mind tricks only work on the weak mind.
That being said, no, Force choke has been shown as a power that is used nigh-instantly. Refer to Dooku and Sidious in their TCW fights. Or Malgus in the trailers.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to continue this if I were you either.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Mace doesn't have a sheet that says how skilled Grievous he. He knows he's good enough to killed Jedi, great. He also knows he's fought Obi-Wan a trillion times and never killed him once. He also knows Kit Fisto fought him and survived the encounter.
He believes Obi Wan to be a superior duelist to himself via his own admission and would be aware of Grievous's growth as well given the fact that Grievous and Obi Wan were still fighting relatively evenly by the end of the war. Being the master of lightsaber combat he is, I'm sure he would also be well aware of the disadvantage Grievous would have been at in a fight against a Shii Cho practitioner.
So you think Mace is going to not even attempt to take down Grievous as a Jedi would and go right to dark-side techniques? Patently stupid.
A Jedi wouldn't cut down an unarmed opponent. He never opted to act as a Jedi should in either confrontation.
Mind tricks only work on the weak mind. That being said, no, Force choke has been shown as a power that is used nigh-instantly. Refer to Dooku and Sidious in their TCW fights. Or Malgus in the trailers.
Telepathy works on minds weak or strong once a Force user passes a certain level of strength in the Force. Given C'baoth was able to dominate the minds of thousands of non Force user's I'm going to assume it is well within Mace's ( or most other Jedi for that matter ) capabilities to dominate the mind of a single non Force sensitive. Even one as strong as Grievous. Regardless, that wasn't the point. I'm saying that if any ability could be used instantly then the hundreds of Jedi that fought Grievous and died to him would've been able to use the Force to hoist him into the air or simply rip his lightsaber away from him while fighting him off with a lightsaber. Again, you might be ok with assuming those hundreds of instances were simple PIS, but I'm not. Also, you wouldn't be able to see a Force user gathering their power before they used an ability so you're Force choke example is irrelevant.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to continue this if I were you either. thumb up
I'm rather enjoying this actually. I'm referring to the concession that you're practically begging me to give you.
__________________ "I like big sweaty testicles." - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
"I worked Jack in" - DMB, Gchat, 2017.
Last edited by UCanShootMyNova on Aug 6th, 2017 at 04:58 AM
Aug 6th, 2017 04:03 AM
