More showings does not denote superiority. This is about as awful as John McClane wins because he has survived more movies type of bias.
You also don't know how to spell his name since its Sidious.
Snoke is more powerful and has better feats than Sidious in all of his showings.
Created the bridge to Ben and Rey. Fl in a much more effective manner and not a straight line at an opponent making it harder to block or dodge. He also force raped Rey who Kylo was unable to force rape Luke's location out of her mind.
Vader without the force or a weapon managed to literally toss Sidious to his death. Those Star Wars tourists who claim to champion the franchise I'd assume would know how to spell his Sith name correctly. It isn't a typo you spelled it the same way multiple times.
Snoke wins. Serkis the actor also confirms he's more powerful than Sidious and Vader. Disney went bigger and badder across the board.
I honestly don't know why you're so obsessed with Snoke's power.
His feats in TLJ amount to:
- making a force bridge between Rey and Kylo which sounds kinda impressive but is a little vague on the details
- knocking an unarmed Kylo back with lightning (apparently you think it's really impressive that he bounced it off the ground or something)
- reading Rey's thoughts
- TK'ing Rey and playing with her lightsaber
I know you're going to comment on how Luke was scared of Rey's raw power or something. Well, Qui Gon was in awe of TPM Anakin's raw power, that doesn't tell us much about her actual abilities lmao.
Seriously, I'm in the camp of not thinking Snoke is a weakling, but your obsession with his power doesn't make much sense when he didn't really do anything mind blowing. The mind blowing feat in that movie belongs to Luke.
Meanwhile, Darth Sidious has:
- mentally manipulated the entire ten thousand strong Jedi Order at their peak and shrouded the Force itself
- casually ragdolled Maul and Oppress before taking them on at the same time and toying with them
- choked Count Dooku from a hologram
- taken down three extremely powerful Jedi masters in a matter of seconds
- matched Yoda blow for blow while hurling massive senate pods across the rotunda
Calling out Sidious for getting blindsided by Vader is kind of funny when you have Snoke getting tagged by Kylo, who is quite explicitly weaker than Vader, with much less of an excuse.
Apparently playing catch with Rey's lightsaber is more impressive than dueling Yoda or something, lmao.
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Darth Sidious was an unknown threat who was duplicitous and had the benefit of acting under the Jedi councils noses for years. This is also irrelevant to a thread about power. Snoke had a different brute force approach than Sidious who was more subtle about his true intentions.
Snoke had less time to react since he dropped his guard, no force power was used, no light saber was used, etc. Palpatine with all his power couldn't stop a one armed cyborg slowly march him over to the edge to toss him over. If Vader was gutted from behind no big deal as he didn't have the time to react while busy with something else but how he was killed is unforgivable especially due to the time it took to achieve and just one arm being all that was needed to do so.
Kylo isn't weaker than Vader. He was spiritually weakened which means he lost his determination and focus. He regained it during the movie and proved his worth to Snoke. I'm not sure if you're unable to properly assess the dialogue or you're too biased to think clearly.
Feats have never determined superiority since they are exclusive to said character. How these characters match up with each other is what matters. Snoke>>>Rey or Ben in direct conflict. Luke was shown up by both as well as he cut himself off from the force for years.
His big feat was done on a force nexus not that it matters one bit in a duel. It's just a really cool concentration feat. We know he's powerful but the feat achieves nothing unless you worship feats. Snoke's bridge feat is powerful but it also has no relevance in a duel. We know both are very powerful on the force but Snoke's utter shellacking of Rey is insanely impressive since Kylo can only stalemate her in the film.
Sidious was responsible for the clouding of the Force in the Prequels.
lol and why does Snoke get a pass for dropping his guard? Sidious was focused on Luke - Snoke was focused on Kylo and bragging about how he can read his mind.
Calling Darth Vader a "cyborg" to mitigate his powers is stupid, especially since you think Kylo Ren is so powerful but he idolizes Vader's power, lmao.
Did I mention Snoke seems to idolize Vader's power too?
ROFLAMO what? Rey reads Kylo's mind in TFA and reveals that Kylo fears he won't become as powerful as Vader, whom he idolizes and tries to emulate through the entire film. Kylo and Snoke both think Vader is uber powerful, I don't know where you got the impression otherwise. Heck, Kylo even models his entire appearance after him and prays to him.
And how are you scaling that vs. Sidious? How do you know how Rey or Ben would've done against Palpatine?
Hint: we know that Vader > Kylo and Sidious > Vader, soo...
lol you're the one who brought up feats, if you only want to use powerscaling then all we have is Snoke > Rey and Snoke > Kylo, which tells us absolutely nothing because you haven't figured out how to scale Rey or Kylo with Palpatine.
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So ? They weren't smart enough to figure him out either way when he's right in front of him. The force tends to balance things out as it rose Rey's power to meet Kylo's without her even doing a damn thing. Sidious was privy to the other side so he held an advantage most dark side users didn't have access to.
Both were betrayed but one attack was quick and decisive with the force/weapon. One was a guy using one arm which gave Sidious the time needed to defend himself. Betrayed isn't the issue it's how it was achieved which makes it so pathetic. I said if Vader just lightsabered him fro behind I'd have no issue since that happens in a moment. How he was killed was without the force or a weapon and took many seconds.
Kylo looked up to him but that doesn't mean he hasn't surpassed Vader.
Nah, Snoke mocked Kylo to manipulate him into becoming focused and determined like Vader. His faith was restored when he was no longer spiritually weakened and brought Rey to him.
He also later destroys the mask and wants to kill the past. He became his own man. It's like using LeBron James in his youth amd awe of Jordan but ignoring the man he is today. He believes he's better than Jordan because he isn't the same bright eyed youth. People evolve and change over time.
I am assuming since Sidious wasn't that impressive against Maul or even Savage. He needed a light saber to execute Opress. He wasn't able to easily disarm either at will. He needed to defeat them in a duel.
Abc logic is horrible. Vader>Dooku>Kenobi but how did Kenobi fare against Vader in rots. Guys match up differently against each other. Fighting styles, force power, etc.
Luke says he's only felt the strength of Rey once before in Ben. He felt Vader and Palpatine's power before.
Well the dark side was growing stronger. It grew stronger through Palpatine. He was the culmination of a thousand years of progressively stronger Banite sith, the most powerful in galactic history. And he explicitly clouded the 10,000 strong Jedi Order's foresight abilities.
First of all, you're lying if you think you wouldn't be making the exact same argument had Sidious been stabbed in the back. Indeed, had their situations been exactly reversed you still would've propped up Snoke and downplayed Sidious, lol.
But that aside, you have no data from which to argue that Snoke would've broken out of Vader's grasp or something. Vader is extremely strong on top of his Force augmentation, and Snoke is incredibly frail with no close quarters combat feats, so honestly he might have just been crushed on the spot.
(Sidious did try to arc his lightning back at Vader, who would later die from his injuries)
Rey reads Kylo's mind and discovers Kylo is afraid he won't be as strong as Vader.
Nope, Snoke said that he saw lots of raw power in Kylo and that he could become another Vader from that raw power.
So what? That has nothing to do with my point.
Your entire case is predicated on Snoke and Kylo both being wrong about their own power levels in comparison to Luke and Vader's respectively.
Lmao ignoring your horribly inaccurate statement, we're talking about the Force here, and Sidious effortlessly ragdolls the two and then ragdolls Maul at the end. I thought you were under the opinion that Maul was super powerful, or have you given up on him for Snoke?
Lmao dude ABC LOGIC IS YOUR ENTIRE CASE, you literally use the "Snoke > Rey = Kylo" argument like every single time you bother to post about this subject.
Have I ever met someone this blatantly and unapologetically hypocritical before?
He was referring to raw power. If you think Rey > Palpatine in an actual fight then you're funny.
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A vague feat which doesn't prove anything power wise. We see Yoda is his clear equal in the force in a test of force powers. Sidious isn't more powerful than all of the Jedi so mostly a moot point. Lip service. His empire locked down the galaxy. None of this would have been possible if Anakin hadn't turned on the Jedi to save Padme but this is going off track. Palpatine is clever and duplicitous but he also had access to the Jedi which most dark siders didn't have access to.
No, I look at the evidence. It's how he was killed which is pathetic not that he was betrayed. Bad guys betray each other all the time. Him killing his master in his sleep doesn't make his master look weak in combat since he is asleep.
It is speculation either way but it's a fact Sidious couldn't break free from his grasp with his use of his force powers.
Speculation. Palpatine is older and weak physically as well.
Yes, a guy highly susceptible to fl couldn't break free from the grip of one hand is rather pathetic. Had Vader used the force to throw him over that would have been smart. This is the same dipshit that failed to use his force powers to rip the Death Star plans away at the end of Rogue One. Instead he uses them to kill everyone around the guy holding the disk.
Wrong. He was speaking about his deter is til and his resolve. His faith in him is restored because he's determined and successful not because his powers skyrocketed. We see Kylo still can't overpower Rey after this with the force.
This has nothing to do with power levels. We already see Luke speak about their power levels and both were greater than Vader. You didn't assess the comments correctly.
Yes, at the proper moments he can do so. We see he needs a duel in order to best him. Maul is lesser than Vader and Dooku in force power. Just as Vader has greater force power than Kenobi but we see he can't even easily beat Kenobi in a force power face off. Both fly backwards. That's why Snoke's utter domination at will is so impressive seeing as Vader wasn't able to easily rape Kenobi.
It isn't about fighting styles here which is the difference. The other duels come down to that. Snoke is simply beyond direct combat with his force powers with what we have seen. Anakin is greater than Kenobi in force power but can he ragdoll him at will. Nah. They needed to duel it out. Hell, even Vader needed to defeat Luke in a duel despite his force power advantage in ESB. Luke even grazes his shoulder. This is why Snoke stands above them all. We see a powerful Luke fall and lose his balance against Rey. We see Ben against a force using Luke caught off guard despite being armed and alert.
Snoke's force domination is unseen or unheard of even when lesser powerful characters face clearly stronger force opponents. I've given examples.
Even Yoda was unable to best Dooku with the force. He's clearly stronger in the force. Snoke stands alone and the only one close to him in fair combat is Luke.
These debates are just as I remember them: you say Snoke is better than Sidious because Sidious got killed by Vader but then admit it's speculation to guess whether Snoke would've done any better, lmao.
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That isn't correct. Snoke looks impressive in his combat showings. How they were betrayed doesn't really matter in a versus fight. It is always speculation over something that isn't a fact. I believe Snoke would have annihilated Vader with his force powers. He'd force manipulate him at will IMO. Sidious just screamed and hurled lightning like a *****. If you want my speculation there it is.
I voted Snoke stomps because I'm a contrarian who defines himself in opposition to popular opinion please think I'm smart for being different!
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I was hoping for grand things from Snoke - such a disappointment.
So was Kylo - struggling with a few of the leader's guards? You know, the type that Yoda *literally* casually handwaves away.
Did Kylo forget he had force abilities? Silly director. Lightsaber fights/skills have gone WAY down hill since EP III.
Vader from Rogue One would have minced everyone in Snoke's chamber - Sidious not required.
Sadly none of the new guard are good enough to join the big boys club.
I also read a certain clown claims Sidious *had* to duel Maul and Savage to win. It's almost as if this person had not seen the fight. Both before and at the end of the fight, Sidious demonstrates he can toy with them using the force at his leisure, and there's not a damn thing they could do. He was longing for some action.
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