Oh my god, you're literally so stupid that it's mind numbing.
Seriously, what do you not understand here?
1. Energy and light are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. Light CARRIES energy. Energy is a vastly more abstract concept. Regardless, energy has no mass. Light does. A single photon has a mass of 0, yet a system of photons has mass, as long as the velocity is above 0.
Since you clearly have next to no knowledge on the topic, read this.
2. That leaves us with, again the fact that these energy balls have no mass, and their force is measured by their destructive output. If a ray of energy can destroy a planet, it is an energy capable of exerting a PLANETARY AMOUNT OF FORCE. I understand that the physics part might be confusing, relating mass to force, light to energy, etc. but come on dude. This is literally going from one to one. You have an energy capable of exerting a planetary amount of force, and then you have someone overpowering said energy. WHICH IS THE EQUIVALENT OF OVERPOWERING A PLANETARY AMOUNT OF FORCE.
I am ****ing baffled right now, by your level of sheer idiocy. It's literally so simple that a kindergartner could understand it.
3. Your calculations be damned, it takes around 3.3X10^33 joules to destroy the Earth, AT THE BARE MINIMUM. This is the equivalent to around a quadrillion megatons. Accounting for the force of gravity re-integrating these particles, resulting in the Earth's reformation, the amount needed could be estimated much higher.
What you don't seem to get, still, after all these posts... Is that the attacks in DB are not bombs.
Which is why I concede to your blundering ignorance. I'm not going to invest anymore time in doing what your grade school failed to. /shrug
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You never answered my question on where you learned your physics, Gogeta. You seem to have learned it from reading random quora posts and going on Naruto forums. Literally everything that's come out of your mentally inept mind on this subject has been wrong.
You don't know what you're talking about. If something has energy it must have a mass-equivalence, Einstein.
What matters is that they clearly have momentum because people can physically push them, they physically move objects, etc. Duh.
...
As I've explained to you what feels like a dozen times by now, the ball contains energy not force, and Goku isn't dealing with its "energy" per-say, but rather its mass-equivalence, which is considerably less impressive (see: Energy / c^2).
Given you clearly failed out of 9th grade physics, yeah.
There is no such thing as a "planetary amount of force". That phrase makes about as much sense as "a blue invisible unicorn".
Because you can't do them, can you?
Let me try your hand for you. 3.3 * 10^33 joules has a mass-equivalent of 4 * 10^16 kilograms. This is a lot - but it's actually not that much by Green Lantern's standards (it's about a millionth the mass of the moon). So it doesn't mean nearly as much as you think it does.
Yes. That's its energy requirement.
AHAHAAHAHAAH!
The 10^33 joule estimate is based on the gravitational binding energy of Earth, so it already accounts for gravity, you f*cking moron.
Irrelevant. Momentum and mass-equivalence are not concepts limited to bombs, lmfao.
How are you cognitively capable of logging into KMC?
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Last edited by The Ellimist on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 03:50 PM
I'm pretty sure a guy whose primary talent is drawing poop on sticks has not even put a billionth of the amount of thought we've seen into this thread as to how a random ki attack operates.
How does a ki blast ball work as far as Toriyama is concerned? It makes stuff go boom boom real good and sometimes makes the bad man go bye bye.
That's possible - the recent physics tangent started with SSJGGogeta bluffing physics knowledge in a truly fantastic manner and inadvertently insulting the collective scientific progress of humanity.
However, the burden of proof is on the people using the "planet-busting energy ball deflection" feat to demonstrate that ki-balls operate differently from how we expect objects with mass-equivalence and momentum to act. If the answer is "we don't know", then the feat is unquantifiable.
As it is, running the numbers to real life analogies tells us that this is about as impressive as stopping a subsonic 10^16 kilogram object, which is not really that impressive to Hal Jordan.
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It's irrelevant that the energy attacks in DB are not bombs, because you're going to equate them to bombs anyways?
Good to know, have fun embarrassing yourself with your ignorance on a forum. It's not even fun to debate with someone too stupid to know that they're stupid. /shrug
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No, I'm saying that the physics I explained to you aren't constrained to "bombs", lol. It's still a matter of fact that the mass-equivalence of the energy ball, which is not rendered null by your claim that it is "pure energy", using the "basic physics" you made relevant is:
Mass equivalence = Energy / c^2
~= (3.3 * 10^33 joules) / (3 * 10^8 m/s)^2
~= 3.7 * 10^16 kilograms
Which is a lot...but like a millionth the mass of the moon. Is it enough to put Goku above Hal Jordan? I'm skeptical.
It's funny how you use your inability to quote things properly to dodge questions you don't like. Where did you learn your physics from? You very obviously learned it from reading random vs. debate posts, didn't you?
I mean, that was actually my first exposure to it before I got formal education on the subject, but come on, you're just embarrassing yourself. You don't understand basic concepts like "force" and "energy" and are desperately trying to convince me that you do.
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Last edited by The Ellimist on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 11:31 AM
Okay, clearly there aren't enough insults in the world to make you see that you're an idiot. I'm not alone in stating that every single post you've made was either a strawman, or a direct denial of feats performed in canon by DB characters.
Back on topic:
1. Frieza blocks an explosion with more power in it than hundreds, even thousands of planet busting attacks, with minimal damage while operating at 50% full power.
2. SSJ1 Goku no sells attacks that Frieza is shocked can be survived by anyone, let alone someone who he was previously so much stronger than. (i.e. He even goes as far as mocking Frieza, sarcastically asking why he can destroy planets, but can't even destroy a single man)
3. Even base Goku at this point operates WELL beyond light speed, CASUALLY.
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This scan is from the BEGINNING of the Saiyan saga, right after Raditz showed up and Piccolo killed he and Goku. In ONE PANEL, Piccolo destroys the moon with a single blast from his hand, before Oozaru Gohan could even continue his rampage (Within the realm of a second or two). This blast alone was at least NEAR-relativistic, even assuming that it wasn't FTL.
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Attacks from this repressed version of Frieza, using 5% of his power are able to completely bypass the senses of Piccolo, WHO WHEN HUNDREDS OF TIMES WEAKER, was able to dish out, react to, and dodge attacks moving around the speed of light.
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Goku, while also suppressed, was able to completely blitz this same suppressed Frieza. The Frieza capable of casually tossing around and dealing with attacks that even light-speed characters can't react to.
In terms of reactionary and combat speed? Namek Goku operates on levels comparable to some of the Flash's most impressive feats. Hal Jordan is nothing, in comparison.
4. In terms of durability, we have characters like Frieza and SSJ Goku tanking attacks with well over planet busting potency, and not being injured in the slightest.
Meanwhile, Green lanterns on the level of Hal are getting knocked out by Batman.
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Durability? Krillin can take more than Hal, on average.
5. Your entire argument, again, is based on the premise that the ki attacks in DB function as bombs, having "internal energy", when they are literally made of pure energy. There is no casing. There is no fuse. There is no bomb aspect about them, other than them making explosions. Your faulty logic, inaccurate equations, and idiotic application of rules to a FICTIONAL SERIES do not change the fact that a. The characters of DB are planet level+, b. The character we're debating about(Goku) is already FTL at this point, and c. Hal Jordan would be one-shot by base form Goku at this point, on Namek.
I must be a glutton for punishment. It's like I'm trying to teach a gorilla how to speak fluent English. *sigh*
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I'll take it as a concession that you suddenly backed out of defending your cringe attempts to bluff knowledge about "basic physics" to instead vaguely call my calculations a "strawman" - even though you'd been talking about it eagerly for several exchanges! Care to explain how my math is a "strawman"? Oh, sorry - that would be like asking a chimpanzee to help you with your English homework.
I'll start off by dealing with the off-hand comment you try to make on that failure:
How the f*ck are you able to figure out how to use the Internet?
M = E / c^2 applies to EVERYTHING, including "pure energy". I've pointed this out to you what feels like a hundred times by now.
Here are my calcs:
Where in my math do I assume it's a bomb?
No - don't dance around the issue. Let me repeat my question:
Where in my math do I assume it's a bomb?
I'll take any evasive non-answer as a concession.
Concession accepted.
You mean when he deflects it? You just got owned when you tried to argue that deflecting and tanking are equivalent.
Circular logic. You haven't proven that anyone weaker than SSJ Goku can tank planet killers, so your case is dead before it even begins.
B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T.
Firstly, even if what you argue below is true, that Saiyan Saga Piccolo's ki attacks are near-lightspeed, that doesn't imply Goku is FTL, even if he sees all of Piccolo's attacks in slow motion.
You're the "basic physics" expert, right? I'll leave it to you to try to figure out why. Or you can concede you don't know wtf you're talking about and I'll give you the answer.
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Your entire argument is based on timestamping against Gohan's rampage...but you don't even bother to include the panels where Gohan is rampaging? LMFAO gtfoh.
Additionally, we actually never see a Z fighter outrun someone's ki blast so there's no reason to think Goku is faster than the attack - being able to dodge something moving in a straight line doesn't make you physically faster than it (obviously).
See above.
See above. Your argument fails on several levels:
1. You didn't establish Piccolo's ki attacks were relativistic.
2. You didn't establish that dodging relativistic straight-line attacks means that you can actually move at relativistic speeds.
3. You didn't establish that even seeing relativistic attacks in slow motion makes you FTL, for reasons I'm sure you don't understand.
LMFAO. Flash's "most impressive feats" involve him being practically omnipresent.
Nice circular reasoning. You haven't established that they have done this, because you got destroyed on the tanking vs. deflecting argument.
Nice job deliberately lying / obfuscating information, as you revealed above to Stillman.
What if I bring up Buu Saga Goku struggling with 20 tons, if you're going to try to lowball?
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Which means Batman still one shot KO'd the guy who beat Arkillo to a bloody pulp.
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1. I've already explained why your calcs are incorrect. You're equating mass-equivalency laws to a cartoon, with attacks that demonstrably have no mass. If they had mass, they couldn't move FTL, which they do outright, many times in the series. Goku's kamehameha wave has literally shot through a black hole.
2. Your calcs are based strictly on physical objects. There is no evidence that supports ki attacks in DB being physical, by any means. "Pure energy" isn't even a real term, you pleb.
Funny how even in this article, it refers to pure energy only existing in fiction... Clearly most mathematicians aren't stupid enough to equivocate real-world science and math into a FICTIONAL SERIES.
3. I don't understand why you're so keen on going off-topic, if you're so confident about the legitimacy of your "calculations".
If you're calcs are correct, then explain how Frieza tanked a blast with well over planet busting potency(110 quadrillion megatons of force), how him catching that explosion didn't even move his hand, and why the blast did more damage to his hand BEFORE exploding with a condensed force of well over planet busting capacity, than it did to his body after exploding with such a force?
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Stop dodging the question.
4. You don't even know what the term circular logic refers to, you idiot.
The character we're discussing here is SSJ1 Goku- him casually tanking planet killers is a ridiculously strong argument for his case.
Regardless, you're wrong- yet again.
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Recoome tanked a blast from Vegeta, after gaining several zenkai boosts and becoming powerful enough to one-shot someone(Cui) who was previously his equal. This blast was far more potent than his Galick Gun against Goku on Earth, yet Recoome tanked it(including the explosion) with no problem.
To infer that base Goku, who later one-shots that same Recoome(before Goku gets hundreds of times stronger prior to his battle with Frieza), is completely asinine and proves nothing other than the fact that you have absolutely no idea what the **** you're talking about, as well as the fact that you have no business debating these characters.
You haven't shown a single feat for standard Hal Jordan that puts him above casually tanking planet killing attacks. Or even on the level of planetary attacks. Hal has been completely overwhelmed by people in the past, who were mere city busters. Hal is closer to the level of Demon King Piccolo from Dragon Ball, than he is to SSJ1 Namek Goku from DBZ.
5. That's not the ONLY feat of someone dealing with attacks that have planetary+ capacity in DB.
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See this? Frieza just casually pulled the arm off, of someone with a power level around the realm of Recoome's. Nail's power level is 42,000, and Vegeta could destroy planets with a power level of around 24,000. Not just destroy said planets, but also tank attacks that could destroy planets(i.e. Goku's 4x kamehameha wave, which had more than planet level strength, being able to overpower Vegeta's Galick gun)
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(Proof that Vegeta's Galick Gun ='s planet buster)
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Even First Form Frieza is able to exert a force great enough with EASE to bypass planetary level+ durability. Which makes sense, because he literally destroyed Planet Vegeta in 1st form with his index finger, while laughing.
Keep in mind however, that a weker form of Vegeta than the one who fought Recoome, was able to one-shot someone with a single blast, who was far stronger than he was back on Earth(Planet level).
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Even Dodoria was above Saiyan saga Vegeta level, and Vegeta literally vaporized him with a single attack. An even weaker attack than the one Recoome tanked, who was then one-shot by a weaker version of Goku than the one who fought Frieza.
Just to keep track for you: SSJ1 Goku = 50X more powerful than Frieza battle Goku >>>>> KK Goku against Ginyu >>> Ginyu >>>>> Recoome >>> Namek saga Vegeta >>> Dodoria >>> Saiyan saga Vegeta = Planet level busting/durability on average.
Now, all your other sideshow bullshit aside, post a SINGLE feat from a standard Hal, that even compares to the level of casual planet+ power demonstrated by even Base Goku on Namek, let alone SSJ Goku.
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It doesn't matter if the attacks have mass, it will still have a mass-equivalence and momentum just as massless photons do, you stupid little f*ck. As with every other point that I make, I've repeated this like a dozen times by now and you still haven't grasped it.
It should become clear to you at this point that you f*cked up by trying to lecture me on "basic physics" when I clearly know far more about it than you do. Hint: my education on the subject matter extends beyond reading Naruto forum posts.
WTF? Since when?
If they aren't "physical" then why do they interact with their environment, show visible inertia, slow down on physical contact, bounce off of objects and even in some cases seem affected by gravity? LMFAO.
AHAHAHA!
1. With every post you inadvertently admit the obvious (that you learn your cringe-bad physics from sporadically misinterpreting internet articles).
2. Where is your evidence that ki attacks are "pure energy", and who gets to define what that f*cking means? You invent a fictitious term, try to apply physics to it...and then complain that I'm following suite? LOL
3. YOU are the one who tried invoking physics when you jumped into start flaming me with your silly bluffing, moron. Before that I had carefully qualified any usage of the word with the understanding that ki probably doesn't behave realistically. Funny how you're backtracking now.
Because you can't actually provide a response to it that gives anyone the impression you aren't bluffing your middle school understanding of it.
*looks through the rest of your post*
Ah, I see you couldn't figure out my riddle regarding Goku not being FTL just because he's much faster than relativistic people - give up? Want me to answer it for you? Because I'm not obligated to entertain any of your other strawmans (e.g. points about the debate as a whole) if you're just gonna run away from the ones that don't suit you. The point of this exchange is more to make fun of your inability to grasp basic science and mathematics, after all - you aren't worth actually discussing the overarching topic with.
It's also been like the sixth time I've asked you to name where you learned your physics from. Still gonna ignore this question in your reply?
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Last edited by The Ellimist on Feb 25th, 2018 at 02:58 AM
As I've explained to you thirty times by now, I was never arguing for Hal Jordan in this thread. I was criticizing a particular argument - an argument that you jumped in to flame me on while posturing about "basic physics" you read on Naruto forums.
So, why are you suddenly so reluctant to talk about the subject matter?
How do my calcs have anything to do with bombs?
Why did you try to lecture me on the 10^33 joule figure...which you thought was a unit of force...which you then said "didn't factor in gravity" when the figure is literally based on gravitational binding energy?
*crickets*
LMFAO, you're near universally recognized as one of the worst debaters on KMC - even fellow DBZ supporters think you're a half step above quanchi in cognitive ability. And it shows.
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Me? Lmao, everyone on this bait thread of yours has ridiculed your specious logic and unsound reasoning. Galan, Mob, Teth, Carver, and even cdtm.
When all those people are willing to agree with each other, over you? It's just more proof that you've reached a level of idiocy that hasn't been seen on this forum for years. Congrats- you're in the bandwagon with the other massively retarded trolls that everyone has on ignore.
I wanted to change that, but the fact simply remains unchanged- you're literally too stupid to even know that you're stupid.
So, this is where I take my leave. Even if you're too stupid to acknowledge it, Goku > Hal, and me > you.
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