As you're aware, however, the majority of hax can be overpowered by someone with a higher scope of power, in DBS.
That's kind of the only reason why Jiren is still in this tournament at all. If time manipulation, etc. worked on him, Hit could have easily just kept him frozen in time while someone picked his ass up and threw him off the side.
DBS follows a particularly annoying trend of making all special powers, abilities, etc, useless in the face of something overwhelmingly more powerful.
The scope of the IG is only universal, something which Jiren should be overwhelmingly above in terms of raw power.
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Death overpowered the IG? I only remember her putting up a shield against indirect power aimed at other abstracts..
The other two examples actually support the case for IG being up there. If you can hold off Doom for any length of time at all, you're outside the power curve.
Just like Molecule Man losing to Pre Retcon Beyonder still makes him the second most powerful being at the time, period.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
When all else is equal, having more options is the game changer.
And Thanos with the IG within the scope of his power has literally limitless options. Jiren is, ultimately, just a brick with energy projection. A very powerful brick with energy projection sure, but that's all he is.
I completely agree, but in DBS, hax just simply don't work on someone far stronger.
I'm not saying Jiren wins, I'm just saying that based on my knowledge of both characters, it seems completely plausible that Jiren could tank the universal energies of the gauntlet, without being severely affected, if at all.
At least that's how it should happen going by DBS logic. Of course Marvel logic is completely different, which is what makes this even worth discussing in the first place.
Obviously, if the IG's full abilities worked on Jiren, this would be a non-fight. My argument is simply that there is a possibility that they wouldn't work.
Also, good to see you again, Nemebro. Feels like I haven't heard that name in years.
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Last edited by SSJGGogeta on Feb 20th, 2018 at 12:08 AM
And while it's also true that energy has done some pretty impressive things, like piercing dimensions, shattering the room of spirit and time, and resisting a time effect (Which I still maintain isn't a full on time freeze, but that's another argument), that all pales in comparison to the things a gauntlet can do.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Sure, but accepting he can resist ANY hax is a no limits fallicy.
For example, a soul rip. No reason to believe Jiren can counter that one. (After all, even in Dragon Ball a soul without a body is just helpless spirit energy.)
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
"Hax don't done work on something in dat dere far stronger range, it don't it don't"
How unlike Marvel. Also as shown in the God Doom fight, or in any fight ever, things add up. Merely "tanking" the IG doesn't mean it's ineffective at any stage. You're defending a being in a series where many of the first attacks don't work.
The IG is apparently only universal in scope. In that scope it is all powerful. It's why Nebula beat Death, Galactus, Celestials, Order/Chaos, etc at the same time easily. Simply saying hax beats power is perfectly applicable to IG as well. If both work on the same basis and one seems vastly more powerful, then how can Jiren's power beat the IG's hax? I mean God Doom was overpowering IG's hax and IG's power was still able to fight well against him.
It doesn't work like that.
Yeah, trying to apply one universes logic to override the other is weird. Though it's largely the same basis anyway.
Power beats other power. Power (largely) beats random shit. But one power was enough to put it against the most powerful being in Marvel history (counting retcons).
Not even LT...acting in his full capacity as representative of TOAA's power/authority...knew if he was powerful enough to defeat the classic IG by force -- Starlin wasn't bluffing when he said that it made its user 'God'. It outclasses Jiren in raw power output.
That said, raw power output is kind of moot as well -- it's not like the IG and Jiren are going to end up in a beam-struggle, ffs(unless Thanos REALLY decides to play around.) One gesture from the IG, and Jiren is transmuted into a pickle...or dumped in the past...or erased from existence...or turned into a child. Etc.
*Depth* of power.
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Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 20th, 2018 at 12:39 AM
Right, except for the fact that we're currently discussing a character from DBS vs. the IG.
My point is that Jiren has overpowered time hax and multiple other kinds of abilities which would normally spell instant death for the person they're being used on, with no effort whatsoever, while suppressed.
My argument is not that Jiren could survive/defeat the IG if it was able to affect him. My argument is that it wouldn't be able to affect him, simply because he can overpower it if it came down to a clash of just raw power.
Doom was able to, even to the point of being unaffected by the IG when serious. The IG wielding Black Panther was barely able to distract Doom, because Doom was simply more powerful. In the end, the fight was reduced to fisticuffs between the two.
Also, the implication that the IG is somehow above the LT is ridiculous, when the LT is the one who singlehandedly stopped the IG.
The IG is not limitless, and it has been beaten with raw power above its own, before. Going by what you're saying, the same should have happened to Emperor God Doom. It clearly did not.
Since the IG is universal, it should be well below Jiren in terms of raw power.
Going by DBS logic, Jiren wouldn't even feel the effects of the IG. That's my entire point here.
__________________
"Why is everybody so ****ing stupid?"- Kim Jong Il, Team America.
That should be posted on Urbandictionary under "No Limits Fallacy".
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
You're using Doom who had the biggest on paper powerup in the history of comics, to try and use him beating the IG as some sort of low feat and thus the IG being "universal" has immense merit?
Doom was powered up by at least hundreds of beings each far above Beyonder. The fact that IG even did as well as it did is not exactly something you should use to prove Jiren can overpower it.
You yourself, SSJGGogeta if that is your real name admitted that the UN can erase Zeno. A being far above Jiren. And a weapon far below the IG. A weapon with scope above the IG as well.
It simply does not add up. To put this in terms you will understand:
Yo it be like using er Gold Furiza losing to Jirenasty 2 tri and proove Furiza cant debeat Iron Tony Start Men
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Feb 19th, 2018 11:47 PM
... i sair Jiren lose this.
