Originally posted by Comic BookSome people think logic=realism.
Well, if I say Spiderman could fly, that is not real according, to what he could do. Well in ultimate, he got beat like a *****. in uncanny and others, he still gets beat but not as bad. How can Wolverine hit Spiderman ?
I've tried it again and again, no effect.
Originally posted by jinzin
he can hit spiderman like this....your flying analogy is ridiculously exaggerated... wolverine's been taking shots from heavy weights and doing things "he has no business doing" since his first appearance... it's not in many of spiderman's short profiles that he has webbing... but we know he has it, we knoe what it can do...
when a character does something enough times it becomes a part of their ability to do plain and simple..
Ok, now how is a 15 ton hitter, not knocking out Wolverine(not killing him) but knocking out. I know they met, and Spiderman was 10 ton, back then, but they had to make the weaker guy, look kool, to sell comics. it is like wrestling, if you ever seen WWE.
but the premise to the argument is that wolverine would logically lose if his character was degraded by realism....
as cresh pointed out..
comic book logic and real world logic operate on two different plains...
i still don't understand what's logical to accept spiderman's powers and attributes without question, but instantly become subjective on judging what wolverine should or shouldn't be able to do no matter how many times he does it.....
Originally posted by Comic Book
Ok, now how is a 15 ton hitter, not knocking out Wolverine(not killing him) but knocking out. I know they met, and Spiderman was 10 ton, back then, but they had to make the weaker guy, look kool, to sell comics. it is like wrestling, if you ever seen WWE.
i've already come up with multip[le explainations for this...
wolverine's body/brain have mutant physiology, it's possible that his brain has adapted to being hit by super powered foes...
boxers go through the same thing starting out soft and through truama becoming able to take plenty of hits after hits...
wolverine's brain has already been shown to heal over itself to protect wolverine's whole being from the pain of them..following that pattern it's reasonable to assume that his mutant healing ability has adapted to being hit by superpowered oponents...
this would explain why 2 hits from hulk KOed him in his first appearance, but later on mutliple hits are simple shrugged off...
also, you have to consider that spiderman lacking ANY formal trainingwhatsoever doesn't know how to throw a punch.. he's not putting 15 tons of force into each punch.. he's throwing out considerably less... also given the fact that he'll be hitting while avoiding claws, says he logically can't hit all out anyways.. wolverine's fighting ability also allows for him to roll with the punches...
and finally spiderman is accustomed to hitting people while in midair... it's hard to get any force behind a hit when not secured to the ground... he's just throwing his arm out there like a wet noodle and hoping for the best...against someone with an adamantium skull that isn't a good idea at all...
Originally posted by Comic Book
ok, if you want to use that, then Spidermans web would stop wolverine. Wolverine is 5,3 and does not have a early warning system. I mean if the battle was only to the death, then maybe wolverine could win a match. Spiderman wins about 8/10
this is also something that's been covered... spiderman has YET to succesfully web wolverine up while in a battle scenario.. the two times he has webbed wolverine, wolverine got out when he wanted to get out... same thing happened when venom webbed wolverine.. unfortunately the expandability of the webbing and wolverine's claws work in favor of wolverine here..
also consider that wolverine's a fast moving target here... he's not just standing there to get hit with the stuff.. and the stuff doesn't automatically cover the opponent up entirely...
Originally posted by jinzinlogic is reasoning used for inference.
but the premise to the argument is that wolverine would logically lose if his character was degraded by realism....as cresh pointed out..
comic book logic and real world logic operate on two different plains...
i still don't understand what's logical to accept spiderman's powers and attributes without question, but instantly become subjective on judging what wolverine should or shouldn't be able to do no matter how many times he does it.....
You know how I feel about feat wars, and I try as hard as I can to use backbone character.
Feats arent real arguments, spiderman doesn't have a "defeat ock" ability.
The only thing in question is healing, as its always a PIS in a sense, because it always meets the needs of various writers.
PIS has no number factor though.
I was just clearing things up, no need to go nuts.
that was pretty good, and Wolverine could pull a win, but not the majority. Spiderman, has been doing this for a while. Wolverine has been getting training for years, but he never had his claws for that long, and was trained in the army of canda, as well as him being in japan. Spiderman has an early warning system, to aviod claws. i believe Wolvie, said Spiderman could kick his ass, but he knows he will hold back, so Wolverine didn't have to worry. Spiderman wins..ok atleast 7/10. A better fight would be, Batman Vs Wolverine, and by the way, who do you think would win, between, Batman and Wolverine.
c, logic is also guided by basic rules or principles to reach that inference.. thus: for a comic book debate, the main points and principles to reach a premise for each character are by using the principles that apply to that character..
this is why realism doesn't apply to characters like hulk superman and well EVERY comic book hero in these threads..
Originally posted by Comic Book
that was pretty good, and Wolverine could pull a win, but not the majority. Spiderman, has been doing this for a while. Wolverine has been getting training for years, but he never had his claws for that long, and was trained in the army of canda, as well as him being in japan. Spiderman has an early warning system, to aviod claws. i believe Wolvie, said Spiderman could kick his ass, but he knows he will hold back, so Wolverine didn't have to worry. Spiderman wins..ok atleast 7/10. A better fight would be, Batman Vs Wolverine, and by the way, who do you think would win, between, Batman and Wolverine.
okay here's the thing.. wolverine HAS had his claws since he was 12.. he HAS used them since then..
and his training goes far beyond what you decribed...
he's been trained by martial arts masters like stick and ogun, and by near every military and special ops branch in the u.s. government..
he was also a cia agent and his weapon x training wes specifically designed to negotiate oponents with ranged capabilites (like spiderman)...
he's also well adept in training in the danger room... xavier on several occasions has asked wolverine to take it easy on the danger room simulations... and those simulations are set up to negotiate super powers, situations, and desicions of all types..
while wolverine doesn't have an early warning system his heightened senses allow things as fast as bullets to appear as if in slow motion to wolverine in some instances...
his senses put him a fraction of a second behind spiderman in reaction time as displayed in new avengers 5.
given his superiority in stamina, that's really not good for spidey...
okay as far as bats versus wolverine.. i still say wolverine... but only because of 3 things.. batman's devices can't do much to wolverine's healing factor... his high frequency device will do nothing more than enrage wolverine (as displayed by hulks thunderclap)... and finally, his suit can't stop wolveirne's claws.. but I do feel he is the better fighter of the two...
Originally posted by jinzin
c, logic is also guided by basic rules or principles to reach that inference.. thus: for a comic book debate, the main points and principles to reach a premise for each character are by using the principles that apply to that character..this is why realism doesn't apply to characters like hulk superman and well EVERY comic book hero in these threads..
exactly, so its logical that a 800 lb lifter wouldn't logically bodyslam hulk, or cut colossus.
Or would have a hard time hitting someone like peter, despite him being shown to, once or twice.
Or would have a hard time beating the hulk.
actauly they have never said how much wolverien can lift. they have said that he ahs super human strength which would put him over 800 pounds. he ahs also said if he hit a huiman any were enar full force there head would explode. he has said that tapping normal people nocks them out. rough-house who has same strength level as colossus wolverine beat up on many many occassions only using his fists. calabain wolverine ahs also beaten easly only using fists. wolverien nocked grey hulk back quite a bit when he punched him in the face. wolverine a lot stronger then u all give him credit for
Originally posted by Metalmanx
So, anyone like Jinzin maybe have anything intelligent to say on Wolverine's behalf? I grow bored of attempting to read gibberish.
Oh trust me they all come up with intelligent and respectable points, but its all based on opinion, whatever you decide and IMO Spider-man wins this 9/10 at least.............
Originally posted by wolverine8888if he had superhuman strength,then why the f*ck does it never come up in ANY bios?
actauly they have never said how much wolverien can lift. they have said that he ahs super human strength which would put him over 800 pounds. he ahs also said if he hit a huiman any were enar full force there head would explode. he has said that tapping normal people nocks them out. rough-house who has same strength level as colossus wolverine beat up on many many occassions only using his fists. calabain wolverine ahs also beaten easly only using fists. wolverien nocked grey hulk back quite a bit when he punched him in the face. wolverine a lot stronger then u all give him credit for
Originally posted by black robbHis strength is the same as Spiderman according to Marvel.com. Although I think is more reconciling for the bullshit he pulls because I've never seen him lift anymore remotely close to this level.
if he had superhuman strength,then why the f*ck does it never come up in ANY bios?
Originally posted by Juntai
His strength is the same as Spiderman according to Marvel.com. Although I think is more reconciling for the bullshit he pulls because I've never seen him lift anymore remotely close to this level.
Do you have any idea how vague that scale is?
They have a 15 ton lifter (Spiderman) in the same category as an 800-1 ton MAX lifter (Wolverine).
I know you're agreeing that Wolverine hasn't shown any strength like that, I just wanted to get that out there.
Think about that, bro.