Darth Maul's fatal mistake?

and he won because he was lucky [/B][/QUOTE] by yerssot

You forget that he said 20 years later "In my experince there's no such thing as luck" 😄

he wanted to make everyone think he had everything under control 😉

no, what I think he means, is that there is no luck because the Force guides him and the future

So maybe the force guided him to victory against Maul. I hope not
though, otherwise that would realy suck. People should be able to make
there own future.
Luke says in the Courtship of Princess Leia to Isolder that the future is not written; we make it for ourselves.

yeah, "always in motion the future is"
but I ment, OB1 and not QGJ training Anakin was perhaps part of the prophecy?

So Darth Maul killing Qui Gonn and then Obi-Wan killing Maul was written
in the prophecy so that there would be no-one else but Obi-Wan who would train Anakin (Thats why Qui-Gonn died) and no-one to get in the way(Maul if he had killed Obi-Wann). Hence, Darth Maul was born to kill Qui Gonn so that he wouldnt train Anakin.

So there's probably not much point in debating who's the best between
Maul and Obi-Wan since the prophecy decided who would be killed, not
their abilities.

That's why I hate the idea of a prophecy in star wars.

nonono, it's just that the prophecy is about someone or something will bring balance to the force, and I doubt that if Anakin got trained by QGJ he would have gone bad and turned to Darth Vader with ultimately redeeming himself

Yep Qui-Gonn would of made a better job. Though you cant blame Obi-Wan, since he turned into a Jedi Master just after having been a padawn
recently himself.

But if Dooku's assumption of Qui-Gonn having joined him if he was still alive was correct then there wouldnt be much of a change in Anakin's
future either.

That's it! If Qui-Gonn had joined Dooku, he would of joined the dark side
and inevitably Anakin would of also.

So the prophecy doesent decide the Qui-Gonn/Obi/Maul fight, it only decides that Anakin would bring balance by turning to the dark side which is inevitable. That is if Dooku's assumption is correct.

Well.....maybe I'm completely out of subject, you tell me.

Obi-Wan turned into a Jedi Knight, not a Jedi Master

and Dooku talking about Qui-Gonn helping him, you can not be sure it's all true, could very easily be that it was to trick OB1 to the dark side

So at about what time did Obi-Wan turn into a Jedi Master?
I'm not sure Dooku's assumption was correct, I said so in the last post.
The sith always use tricks to fool people, I was only stating my comment in the context where Dooku tells the truth.

Obi-Wan never turnes into a Jedi Master as far as canon goes up till now
he is refered to as Master as in, he has an apprentice he teaches, not as in the rank of Jedi Master

a good example is when sio bibble says: "What is your plan, master Jedi?" to anakin who's a padawan
it shows that non-jedi don't quite get the ranks of the order

about Dooku:
"Lies! Deceit! (sp)! (something else)! Are his ways now!"

it's not on film, but because this apparently needs some sort of answer: You only get the formal title of "Master" by successfully training a padawan to knighthood. that's what it says in the databanks, EU but seems to be consistent with whats on film too so that's as close as we'll get to an answer on that.

Yerssot-I totally agree, Qui-gon would have been a much better influence for Anakin, he'd have given him the room to breathe that Obi-wan doesn't (nothing against him, but I think his being a young trainer makes him a bit overzealous). But the idea that Anakin would have still gone bad needs to be present. Think about it, if Anakin had not turned, he would have been killed in the purge, he can't take Palpatine alone at this stage, with the drain on the lightside and all. Not to mention Palpatine knows what he is, and had he not turned, Palpatine would have made damn sure the Jedi's chosen one was killed so that he could never reach full potential. Anakin's children would have also been killed along with the other Jedi younglings. No one would have been able to stop Palpatine. In Anakin's path, his going to the dark side allows him to live through the purge, his children are hidden both from death and his possible training if he got a hold of them, leaving Luke free to grow and bring his father back to the light, so that he could kill off palpatine. As long as Anakin was Vader, he was able to increase his skills to a point where he could kill Palpatine. It seems to me that, as awful as it was, it was essential for him to become Palpatine's apprentice in order to reach the inevitable outcome.

if a more experienced master had been appointed to train anakin (mace windu, ki adi mundi or even yoda) he might have turned out different. MAYBE.

Dooku let windu sneak up on him because it was necesary for the war to start. he was calm and even expected windu if you look at his face. and once again, maul was not as good as he seemed. One of the main principles of martial arts and fencing is conservation of movement. Dooku is calm and is able to deflect everything thrown at him with ease and little mobility. maul just flails all over the place. and once again, lightning comes up. If even a wannabee like Assajj Ventress can use force lightning, why couldn't maul?

because maul was LETHAL with the sabre and his force-powers suffered the consequences

okay, when did ventress bust out lightning? Also, maybe maul doesn't like to use it, he seems very into the warrior honor type BS. But mainly I think GL shows people using it who are meant to be shown as very very powerful opponents. If Maul was any stronger, it would have been harder to believe he was so easily dispatched (from a writer's stand point).

just because maul didnt use lightning doesnt mean he couldnt .

again, compared to dooku, and vader, his saber technique was not that impressive

it was mainly the taking on two at a time with such a bad@$$ looking weapon that made it impressive. But I don't know if I'd agree with it being more impressive than Vader, at least onscreen, because as far as most are concerned, Vader never really fought anybody in the OT. He sorta fought Obi-wan but that wasn't exactly full of fancy moves (but I do chalk that up to it being made in '77 and as such, I cut it some slack). And he certainly wasn't trying to kill Luke, so he's never been at his all. I don't doubt that Vader really fighting would be very impressive. I'd just like to see it. The only time I think he was even remotely trying is in the end of Empire, after Luke's been sucked out the window, he walks into that hall and Vader just bursts from the shadows next to him and nearly split him in two, and then proceeds to knock Luke with blow after blow until taking of his hand. But even then, I don't think he wanted to kill him, I think he just wanted Luke to know that Vader was still something to fear, and that Luke was in fact not doing as well as he'd thought.

He was much more agile than Vader and Dooku, more agressive.

True the double- bladedlightsaber made it look impressive. But when Obi-wan cuts it in half, you've got to admit that Maul fought very well with the single bladed lightsaber thats left and did beat Obi-Wan pretty quick.
Maybe Maul didnt use force lightning because he didnt need to or
because he couldnt (after all Dooku used to be a well recognised jedi master so he has more experience).