Is this the real world???

Do we? Well how come we aint got a person to Mars yet? Or even better, why is it we still use fossil fuels? Or why haven't we even been outside our own Solar System.

Understanding ourselves is ABSOLUTELY relevant to understanding the Universe. If we do not know how far our capabilities can go within our own fleshy boundries, then we don't stand a chance at learning what is possible in the entire universe.

We think we know, but we do not. Arrogance is a trait born into every human being - and as I said in another thread, the Second Renaissance sums this up quite nicely.

Yes sifer you are right Arrogance is something every human is born with to express it is the diffrence that makes every human original
dont you agree

I do not believe in reality...

No, this isn't the real world, the only real world lives in daydreams 🙂

It's much too realistic to be real here 🙂

Yes, definately. Original, but not superior - this is kinda crossing over into 2 threads...LOL

Sifer> Why we haven’t been to Mars, outside the Solar system and use fossil fuel? Money. We’re not going anywhere as long as NASA and ESA don’t get funding enough. We know how to create fusion in principle, but to make it work in the real world requires more energy than we can produce.
And fossil fuel? Are you serious??? Look up oil-industry. Please, do not confuse scientific knowledge with what governments and space agencies have money for.

Stephen Hawking sits in a wheel-chair. He doesn’t need to know himself, to write and theorize so the physics community clap in their little hands. I do not need to know myself to the fullest, to study quantum mechanics.

We do know quite a lot.. Saying we don’t is a trait common among people, who, themselves, DO not know, and want that to be universal.

No, I don't want that to be universal at all. I would rather it be universal in the opposite direction. But that aint gonna happen just yet. Also, I was actually gonna post earlier this exact thing:

Money, money, money, it makes the world go round!

Control! I DON'T confuse Fossil Fuels with scientific knowledge AT ALL. But the fact remains: We use fossil fuels because of money. Money is what gives power and there will always be a need for it as long as the human race continues to be as arrogant as it is. Why do they want power? To control. Why do they want control? Because they are arrogant.

Not only does Second Renaissance show this nicely but the Matrix on a whole. After all, the machines were endowed with the very spirit of man. What do they want? Control. Kinda ironic isn't it.

Then you get people like the Wachowki's who encourage you to learn what they know, and expand your mind. They don't criticise you if you do or do not know because it is our choice to do so or not.

Anyway, I don't have the time or patience to continue the debate cause I am going somewhere, but don't imply that IF I don't know something, the no-one else knows it. If you yourself would actually think about what we know about the universe then I think you would realise that we really do know very, very little about it and we are even further from understanding it.

As you said earlier: Theories.

Why is it a theory? Because we don't know.

Originally posted by The Omega
Urot> No one is saying we’re alone. I haven’t heard any scientist say that, at least. What we must say is “We haven’t met any ETs yet”.
There is a difference.

I was really addressing the truly ignorant in power, like the religous right. Not credible hard working scientist in their field of study.

IMO I think the world goverments have info about ET's that will be brought to light in time.

They may be waiting for the human race to learn to be more excepting?

Who knows?

*** Starts to sing the Teen Titans intro song. 😛 ***

MWAM is correct. How else could the oracle predict the future, unless it happened before. And how else could it happen identically before unless it was in a manufactured world? By the matrix putting the virus into a pre-programmed, controlled environment - where the outcome is spelled out, and it spells doom. This time, Neo has help though. Something has been given to him. The Oracle's candy in "Reloaded"???? The KISS??

Control! I DON'T confuse Fossil Fuels with scientific knowledge AT ALL. But the fact remains: We use fossil fuels because of money. Money is what gives power and there will always be a need for it as long as the human race continues to be as arrogant as it is. Why do they want power? To control. Why do they want control? Because they are arrogant.

So, because we use decayed dino bones to run our Fords...we're arrogant?

Do solar panels make us arrogant? I mean, shucks, we are USING the SUN'S power.

What I find funny is most people's ignorance of tribal communist societies that existed in norht america, and, if they do by some chance cite them, use them as some standard we as humans should reach. In essence, the liberal environmentalist wants us to TURN BACK THE CLOCK a few thousand years... not something I, nor anyone else who likes their microwave, am willing to do...

Not only does Second Renaissance show this nicely but the Matrix on a whole. After all, the machines were endowed with the very spirit of man. What do they want? Control. Kinda ironic isn't it.

Not really. There is no human nature.

Here is an article from a local newspaper that I think explains a lot about The Matrix:

Frequently Asked Questions about 'The Matrix: Reloaded'
Version 1.0

As you might imagine, The Matrix: Reloaded has inspired hot debate on the Internet, with a multitude of theories going on as to what really happened. Here we present the most popular theory. If you haven't seen the movie yet, be wary; there are heavy SPOILERS in this article.

- So what the hell was going on at the end of the Matrix Reloaded?

There is no spoon.

- No, really, what the hell was going on at the end?

Everybody's been played. EVERYBODY. Neo's not the One. Morpheus is a sucker. There is no One. There is no Zion. They’re all still in the Matrix.

- Do what?

The machines knew that their Matrix scam could no last forever; 99.9 percent of the human population would accept it, but that last margin would pose a problem. So they built a false escape route--Zion. Zion is a big game within the Matrix. It exists solely to give the rebellious types the ILLUSION of rebellion, fighting back without actually doing so.

In the same manner, the Prophecy and Neo;s existence as "the One" is largely a smokescreen to give hope to guys like Morpheus and keep them off track. Neo is, in truth, a focus of anomalies and glitches in the Matrix The Architect knows about these glitches; he can't stop them, but he can isolate them into one spot. Once these glitches get too big and powerful, as Neo has, it's time to hit the Universal Reset Button.

According to the Architect at the end (using many big wordsto explain simple ideas) they've rebooted the Matrix six times, and destroyed Zion each time. Every time, the One is sent back in reincarnated form along with 23 others of his choosing. (Remember the Oracle's room in the first movie? There were many other "potential" Ones. Most likely there are among the 23 from the last time around.) Neo chose a different route than previous Ones, opting to save Trinity. How this will play out is anybody's guess.

On the other hand, we have no actual reason to believe a word the Architect is saying. Somebody's definitely lying. It could be that everybody is lying.

Another crucial hint: Neo, at the end, was able to affect reality around him in the "real world." This is an ability that can't be explained any other way except to realize that he's still in the Matrix. Morpheus seems to realize this at the very end.

- So all this running around in the real world they've been doing is fake. They're all still in their pods?

Yes. If, indeed, those pods actually exist. Everything Morpheus told Neo in the first movie is now suspect. We have no idea what the machines are really doing or what humanity's true role is.

- So the Oracle, she's the mother of the Matrix, right?

Not necessarily. NEO said the Oracle was the Mother, and the Architect didn't correct him. The Oracle pulled the same trick on Neo last time; she never actually told him he wasn't the One.

- So what's up with Agent Smith?

Beats me. Best guess is that he's become a virus of some kind after Neo's rewriting of his code last time around. And like any good virus his basic prerogative is to use up all available resources to make copies of himself. He's a definite wild card. Consider this: If not for Agent Smith's timely intervention in the Hall of Doors, Neo would have reached the door too early and everybody would have died. Smith's action benifited both Neo and the Architect. There's more to this than we know.

- By the way, what's a Merovingian?

A dynasty of French kings who claimed to be directly descended from Jesus. Chew on THAT bit for a while. Incidentally, Persephone is the daughter of Demeter, who was forced to sppend half her life at the side of the lord of the underworld.

- So what else do we know for sure?

All we know for sure is that everything we know so far is wrong.

time to chill out...

💃 💃 💃 💃 💃

ok, now, can we move on from political, socio-religious thoughts to the matrix? This is the Matrix Forum after all. I'm not trying to be a party pooper, im just saying that alot of people are gonna get mad(myself included)if we start bashing people or specific groups of people *cough* religious right *cough*.

Originally posted by JediHDM
This is the Matrix Forum after all. I'm not trying to be a party pooper, im just saying that alot of people are gonna get mad(myself included)if we start bashing people or specific groups of people *cough* religious right *cough*.

We could talk about all of the left's screw ups instead. 😛

*Your "right" we need to get back to talking about the matrix.*

HAHAHA...no, lets just get back to the Matrix...Banana King 💃

💃 *burp* 💃

I don't consider liberals to be leftists 🙂

Sifer> Well well well. You’re diverging from the topic. You argue, that we only know a little about the Universe, since mankind itself haven’t been to Mars, or travelled outside the solar system, and still use fossil fuel. It is possible to send astronauts to Mars, and use renewable energies, the theory behind fusion is there. We know what fusion is, and how it works.
Lack of funding for space-agencies and renewable energy sources have zip to do with what we do or do not know about the Universe. Money, control and power in relations to politics on planet Earth again have nothing to do with what we know and do not know about the Universe.

You have no idea how humanity fares in 100 years, saying that humans will always need money is your own arrogance projected onto the entire human species. We didn’t always have money, you know? Sure you do. What is going on right now, right here in our civilisation is just that. I’m sure the Romans thought the Roman Empire would last forever. We can’t predict what will happen.

Yes, the Wachoski’s have a theme (among many) to expand your mind. If you chose not to do so, by all means. Keep on living in ignorant bliss, be a slave to the system. They don’t have to say what they mean.

And, Sifer. I think I know more about what the scientific community does and does not know about the universe. “Gentleman, I’ve studied the subject.” Again: Are you arrogant? Do you feel contempt against the weak?

We still haven’t establish with 100 % certainty that the events of Second Renaissance were true. They were from the Zion database, and should’ve survived 5 total eradications of the city. Odd, isn’t it?

(taps foot)

(points at what JediHDM said)

There is good reason that we do not like this sort of argument around here. People get upset.

I don't believe in it. Just because i can bend spoons with my mind doesnt mean its the Matrix... does it?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
(taps foot)

(points at what JediHDM said)

There is good reason that we do not like this sort of argument around here. People get upset.

OMG! He has arisen!

*** Quick run and hide your children! ***