Originally posted by Linkalicious
was he moving forward when Cyclops nailed him with the optic blast?I mean...even Venom was able to knock Juggernaut backwards...but when Cyclops did it....was Jugg's doing the forward momentum thing?
Also, I think Juggernaut is just like every other superhero in the Marvel Universe. Though their bio may give them a strength limitation...I think he is capable of exceeding it. Every character from Hulk, to Wolverine, to even Spiderman can "go crazy" or "flip out" and do feats of strength that no one previously thought was possible. I'm sure if Juggernaut flew off the handle he could over power Hulk.....well....atleast until Hulk gets really really mad.
It CAN'T work like that, Link. He has to initiate it (e.g., "will" it to be so). It just can't be that, when he is walking down the street, an asteroid will just arbitrarily bounce off of him.
He was "walking forward" when Colossus knocked him on his tail when they fought. He was "walking forward" when Hulk knocked him on his butt. That's the only thing that I can come up with; that he has to "will" it.
Furthermore, odd how the Juggernaut zealots can say that only magical and psionic attacks can harm Juggernaut (simply not true, but whatever) and then go on and quote how he walked through Thor's Godly Essence Blast which is...hmm! A magic-based attack.
LoL, that was about as credible as Wolverine slashing open Silver Surfer's hide.
That whole Venom thing is garbage. Get real. Venom is Woody Allen to Juggernaut in terms of...well, EVERYTHING. And he was able to hang in there while they were fighting?
That's why I say that MOST are able to recognize really BAD characterizations when we see them. No way in hell is Juggernaut surviving Thor's GEB, and there is no way in hell that Venom should be able to knock Juggernaut around.
Originally posted by Never
It CAN'T work like that, Link. He has to initiate it (e.g., "will" it to be so). It just can't be that, when he is walking down the street, an asteroid will just arbitrarily bounce off of him.He was "walking forward" when Colossus knocked him on his tail when they fought. He was "walking forward" when Hulk knocked him on his butt. That's the only thing that I can come up with; that he has to "will" it.
Furthermore, odd how the Juggernaut zealots can say that only magical and psionic attacks can harm Juggernaut (simply not true, but whatever) and then go on and quote how he walked through Thor's Godly Essence Blast which is...hmm! A magic-based attack.
LoL, that was about as credible as Wolverine slashing open Silver Surfer's hide.
That whole Venom thing is garbage. Get real. Venom is Woody Allen to Juggernaut in terms of...well, EVERYTHING. And he was able to hang in there while they were fighting?
That's why I say that MOST are able to recognize really BAD characterizations when we see them. No way in hell is Juggernaut surviving Thor's GEB, and there is no way in hell that Venom should be able to knock Juggernaut around.
I know what I wrote...and I realize it was wrong...
What I meant was the whole "unstoppable" momentum thing when I said "walking forward"
When Cyclops sent Juggs reeling back...was Juggernaut initated in his unstoppable forward momentum?
And I agree with what you have to say about Venom in "the madness." He should not have been able to trade punches with Juggernaut, he should have gotten his ass handed to him from the get go. But I do think that Venom's best blows do have enough strength to put Juggernaut on his butt...but that's about it.
That's the thing (and when I was saying that "it can't work like that" I was thinking out loud, not actually telling you that you are incorrect. sorry for the confusion); writers do not specify. We have seen some horrible inconsistencies already -- writers should be a lot more responsible. I bring this up often because I find it hilarious -- since that trashy story arc wherein he shrugged off Thor's GEB (a magic-based attack), one poster on here once said that "if The Beyonder let off a blast that destroyed the entire universe, only Juggernaut would be left standing."
[mike tyson]Ludicruth.[/mike tyson]
If he has to initiate it (read: will it into being), then Cyclops should not have been able to knock him backward.
Re: Venom, I forget how strong he is (heh @ Venomfan once telling me that Venom presses 50 tons)...but even if its Spiderman strength, that's more than sufficient force to be able to knock Juggernaut off-balance, agreed. I also think that he'd have to catch him unawares.
Originally posted by NeverI guess it wasn't sufficient. He would of had his forcefield up for that one.
Furthermore, odd how the Juggernaut zealots can say that only magical and psionic attacks can harm Juggernaut (simply not true, but whatever) and then go on and quote how he walked through Thor's Godly Essence Blast which is...hmm! A magic-based attack.
According to the website in the link you provided, savagerampage:
"[Juggernaut] is impervious to all conventional harm. He appears to be indestructible, although sufficient (indescribably immense) force and/or powerful mystical attacks can cause him harm. He can survive being buried underneath thousands of tonnes of rubble, covered in molten metal and/or having his body stripped to the bone by mystical forces."
The Incredible Hulk's ever increasing strength, (added to the sheer velocity of moving at 700mph,) coalesced into a punch could be considered "indescribable."
Marvel says:
"The Juggernaut possesses untold power, mystical in nature, which enhances his strength and grants him an extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury. Once he begins moving in a certain direction, no force on Earth can stop him -- only slow his pace."
Notice, the profile says "resistance to all forms of injury," including physical injury.
Can anyone define "extraordinary degree of resistance?" It's certainly not immunity, so there's a start.
My point exactly.
>>>>or powerful mystical attacks can cause him harm.
Hellooooooooo? And what did Thor hit him with? The same blast that destroyed The Midgard Serpent, the same blast that pierced the armor of a CELESTIAL.
As far as him being stripped to the bone...LoL, that's as laughable as his shrugging off Thor's GEB.
"Impervious to all CONVENTIONAL harm?" Bullets, bombs, missles, hand grenades.
"The Juggernaut possesses untold power, mystical in nature, which enhances his strength and grants him an extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury. Once he begins moving in a certain direction, no force on Earth can stop him -- only slow his pace."
Notice, the profile says "resistance to all forms of injury," including physical injury.
Can anyone define "extraordinary degree of resistance?" It's certainly not immunity, so there's a start.
basically anyone who doesnt have psi power or someone who doesnt have enough magical power, wont be able to hurt him.
basically anyone from thor down in the marvel universe cant hurt em.
anyone else above thor can pretty much beat the crap outta him.
juggernaut can be knocked on his ass, when they say nothing can stop his forward motion, they are saying he will never stop moving in that direction unless he wants to. he can get tossed on his ass a zillion times but its his resilience to get back up and continue, thats what they mean by no force on earth. cause he keeps on coming.
Originally posted by savagerampage
basically anyone who doesnt have psi power or someone who doesnt have enough magical power, wont be able to hurt him.
basically anyone from thor down in the marvel universe cant hurt em.
anyone else above thor can pretty much beat the crap outta him.
Anyone from Thor on down.
Let's see, Thor's Blast was powerful enough to pierce armor that is described in EVERY bio on them (The Celestials) as "totally indestructible."
If I recall correctly, the most durable items in all of the Marvel Universe are the armor of a celestial, the armor of The Destroyer, Thor's Hammer, then adamantium.
Not Juggernaut's hide.
At any rate, Thor does not have enough magical power to hurt Juggernaut? *shrug* I guess.
Definitions of invulnerable...
1. Immune to attack; impregnable.
2. Impossible to damage, injure, or wound.
"extrodinary resistance" is not the same as what is listed above..case closed on his "invulnerability"....
..The fact that he can be dizzied..illustrates that he has a "human" equilibrium and can be KO'd...case closed.
Now for the question that is still up in the air..Can Hulk dish out enough physical force to KO Juggernaut? Don't know..but I do have to say that Hulk would have a better chance of doing it than most of the other class 100 peeps in the MU....
Originally posted by Never
Anyone from Thor on down.Let's see, Thor's Blast was powerful enough to pierce armor that is described in EVERY bio on them (The Celestials) as "totally indestructible."
If I recall correctly, the most durable items in all of the Marvel Universe are the armor of a celestial, the armor of The Destroyer, Thor's Hammer, then adamantium.
Not Juggernaut's hide.
At any rate, Thor does not have enough magical power to hurt Juggernaut? *shrug* I guess.
of course he does, the hammer carries the power of Odin, while it isn't completely indestructable, anything Odin can damage or destroy the hammer can too (in theory)
Originally posted by NeverDifferent places, different situations.
Right, and Colossus knocked him on his tushie...but Thor's GEB wasn't sufficient. Haw.
He didn't have up his forcefield.At the time he did have a higher control and awareness of his powers. But whatever, if he didn't need his forcefield to laugh at the godforce, he didn't.
Originally posted by whobdamandogMarvel contradicts itself one way or the other.
Definitions of invulnerable...1. Immune to attack; impregnable.
2. Impossible to damage, injure, or wound."extrodinary resistance" is not the same as what is listed above..case closed on his "invulnerability"....
..The fact that he can be dizzied..illustrates that he has a "human" equilibrium and can be KO'd...case closed.That's one of the many mysteries about Juggernaut. But until we see him punched by another Onslaught strengthed character, if that instance was physical, which is very doubtful it was KO Juggernaut in one hit in ink, we'll never know.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
May I point out that while you're all arguing about Juggernaut's powers, it consistantly takes comparisons to other characters to show it. Characters irrelevant to this thread.