Originally posted by newjak86
Listen i reality Venom vs Juggs is a low showing Cain and a high showing from Venom considering what we know from both characters.Venom at his best is a 50 ton mid to high street-level character and has been stated to be closer around 25 tons.
Juggernaut is a high class 100 who's strength limit is incalculable and a chance at being limitless. As taken shots from other high class 100s like Thor and Hulk and laughed them off and felt no effects to his being and whose punches have knocked Thor out and hurt Hulk.
In reality venom should have no shot at even begining to stand up to Cain. the only reason Venom should even have a chance is if he jumps around using a mixture of his speed and strength to knock Cain around which is how it is shown in the comic and Cain leaving on his own.
Even still though punches from Venom should have almost no effect considering Cain takes class 50 shots from rouge like he barely got tapped on the shoulder. And takes shots from Thor like he was being hit by a kid.
Thats just the way it is Venom could not put Cain down permantly and his only chance is if th wirters find a way for cain to leave.
Originally posted by AccelNo but you are using it for an arguement when at its base is very badly written piece of work when looking at the characters themselves.
I'm not saying it should have happened, but it happened.
If you understand the basics that it bad writing and shouldn't have happened then why try and use it when other higher showings of cain exist which show this to be false. Especially when you don't want to take any low showings for Hulk into account. I mean after all I can say Hulk got taken out by a python but we all know that in reality Hulk should have laughed and tore the thing apart.
Originally posted by newjak86
No but you are using it for an arguement when at its base is very badly written piece of work when looking at the characters themselves.If you understand the basics that it bad writing and shouldn't have happened then why try and use it when other higher showings of cain exist which show this to be false. Especially when you don't want to take any low showings for Hulk into account. I mean after all I can say Hulk got taken out by a python but we all know that in reality Hulk should have laughed and tore the thing apart.
Here's the thing: people keep bringing up the fact that Hulk was beaten by guys like Thor, Surfer, Thanos, Antman (how are these relevant? Cain doesn't have the abilities of these four!), and others to claim as 'proof' that Hulk will automatically lose against Cain (despite the fact that he's managed to stalemate him before), so I'm to keep bringing up Cain's poor moments as well.
Originally posted by AccelLoosing to Thor and surfer are not bad things considering their power level.
I already admitted Hulk was once taken out by a python. In fact, it's easily his worst showing.Here's the thing: people keep bringing up the fact that Hulk was beaten by guys like Thor, Surfer, Thanos, Antman (how are these relevant? Cain doesn't have the abilities of these four!), and others to claim as 'proof' that Hulk will automatically lose against Cain (despite the fact that he's managed to stalemate him before), so I'm to keep bringing up Cain's poor moments as well.
Admitting that Hulk was taken down by a phyton is his low showing and cain has some as well but the point and froum rules sate that if two feats contradict eachother the higher feat is taken into account unless it is something completely out of the characters league.
Cain's low showings always have a higher feat that is within his character to do to overshadow it.
Even still if your only way of debating is trying to show a characters low showing and using anothers high showings instead of using both characters at their best. Well then you must not be much of a debater then. Although I think you are smarter and better then doing that.
Originally posted by newjak86
Loosing to Thor and surfer are not bad things considering their power level.Admitting that Hulk was taken down by a phyton is his low showing and cain has some as well but the point and froum rules sate that if two feats contradict eachother the higher feat is taken into account unless it is something completely out of the characters league.
Cain's low showings always have a higher feat that is within his character to do to overshadow it.
Even still if your only way of debating is trying to show a characters low showing and using anothers high showings instead of using both characters at their best. Well then you must not be much of a debater then. Although I think you are smarter and better then doing that.
I'm all for using a character's higher showings. Hulk was stood at the very center of a universe-destroying blast and not only withstood it, but redirected it. Yet, some people can't look past the fact that Namor beat him. Hulk's higher feats also overshadow his lower ones, but people prefer to go with the lower ones that contradict his more consistent showings.
Originally posted by AccelAnd when you choose to do the same then this is what happens people running around having to show the higher feats. People argueing abut what a charcter can do and if you already know what a person is capable of and still choose to use a lower feat well then you are no better then the people you scrutinize. It just causes bickering and whining and takes away from what can be a very good debate when facing two very powerful people like Cain Hulk.
I know Hulk should never be able to beat Thor or Surfer, but for some stupid reason, people keep bringing them up in this debate, despite the fact that Cain can't do what they can do.I'm all for using a character's higher showings. Hulk was stood at the very center of a universe-destroying blast and not only withstood it, but redirected it. Yet, some people can't look past the fact that Namor beat him. Hulk's higher feats also overshadow his lower ones, but people prefer to go with the lower ones that contradict his more consistent showings.
Originally posted by newjak86
And when you choose to do the same then this is what happens people running around having to show the higher feats. People argueing abut what a charcter can do and if you already know what a person is capable of and still choose to use a lower feat well then you are no better then the people you scrutinize. It just causes bickering and whining and takes away from what can be a very good debate when facing two very powerful people like Cain Hulk.
I try to explain it to them, but they dismissed my words, ignored every thing else that Hulk has done, and just accept those two scans as 'fact.' Now how fair is that? So i brought my own 'proof' (Venom and Juggernaut) despite the fact that it contradicted Cain's higher showings in hopes that it would show them just how rediculous they were being. However, as you said, it just resulted in a bunch of bickering.
Originally posted by AccelExactly all you can do is show the high feats if some people are to thick headed to accept them then so be it if you know your right and backed it up thats all that metters.
I know it shouldn't have happened (Venom smacking around Juggernaut), but like I said, people kept bringing in 'proof' that Hulk could be overloaded with pain (despite SEVERAL instances where he wasn't and took more punishment than Thor gutting him) and that he gets tired during a battle after a day(despite SEVERAL instance where he fights for weeks without tiring and the fact that his handbook states he has unlimited stamina).I try to explain it to them, but they dismissed my words, ignored every thing else that Hulk has done, and just accept those two scans as 'fact.' Now how fair is that? So i brought my own 'proof' (Venom and Juggernaut) despite the fact that it contradicted Cain's higher showings in hopes that it would show them just how rediculous they were being. However, as you said, it just resulted in a bunch of bickering.
Originally posted by DinalfosYeah it always does in reality this thread should probably be dead/closed if you ask me. Nothing new comes from this debate and it just ends up going into 10 pages of people bickering over meaningless things.
Heh. This is what Cosmic Cube was talking about. At the end of a long runnnig subsection of the debate, there appears to be closure. But then some jackass comes along to revive the thread and the whole thing starts over 😂
Originally posted by AccelYeah when this thread gets revived I normally try and keep out of it. Just not worth the hassel I just went into this time because I hate when people bring up Venom and Onslaught.
Yeah, hopefully we can all just agree to disagree. Depending on how long it is 'til this thread is revived, I think I'll stay out of it. I've already said all that I can say.