Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by Mindship
When things get too convoluted, I return to the basics. This was Juggs' tagline back in the day. That's what he does. By sticking to this, I figure I'm giving him his due without taking anything away from Hulk, who (except for the forward momentum) is SOTI. That's what he does.

Given all the reboots and changes and character versions, my approach may not always be the most accurate. But it simplifies and makes the basics clear (for me, anyway).

Agreed completely.

But people here have been arguing that the famous juggernaut tagline was just a figment of my imagination much less "basic" about the character.

Glad to see I'm not the only crazy person here lol 👆

Originally posted by Odekahn
This is basically where I have been coming from. But then I got called a liar and told that I was pulling the whole "once he begins forward momentum" bit from my posterior. Smh lol

Then you got called trollish for completely ignoring that Juggernaut had forward momentum anyway since he was rushing towards WWH before locking up with him.

Originally posted by Odekahn
I wonder if we could get a mod ruling on if his enchantment needs forward momentum??

Juggernaut was moving forward during both instances.

Originally posted by Odekahn
I wonder if we could get a mod ruling on if his enchantment needs forward momentum??

newjak is the juggernaut expert of the mods, so I would ask him, though I would be willing to chime in if needed.

Originally posted by ODG
You got called foolish for trying to use websites to prove your case instead of comics.

Then you got called trollish for completely ignoring that Juggernaut had forward momentum anyway since he was rushing towards WWH before locking up with him.

And I got called both unjustly.

I didn't use the websites to try to prove my claim. I was at work when I posted those and did so to show you that I wasn't making the concept up. You were the one who asked me to provide you with something, I gave you my opinion and you scoffed at it.

And I got called trollish because I don't think you guys have proved that Juggernaut had any forward momentum at that point in the fight. They were face to face trading blows. You want to paint the picture that Juggernaut was charging Hulk in the same he was during War Hulk, and he wasn't.

Juggernaut's super strength and unstoppablility aren't the same thing. It's not a matter of strength. He's not stopping Juggernaut just like he's not picking up Mjolnir.

Originally posted by carver9
Juggernaut was moving forward during both instances.

Juggernaut isn't unstoppable in a boxing situation, he's unstoppable in a charging manner once he builds momentum (i.e. The unstoppable force).

Originally posted by Odekahn
And I got called trollish because I don't think you guys have proved that Juggernaut had any forward momentum at that point in the fight. They were face to face trading blows. You want to paint the picture that Juggernaut was charging Hulk in the same he was during War Hulk, and he wasn't.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well... that's certainly the same gosh darned attack.

Anyway, it took me a couple hours, but I made a picture to show how big Juggernaut's foot is if he isn't doing a running uppercut.

If you can't admit to this, then I have no choice but to conclude you've been enchanted by the 9th member of the Octossence: Trollerak. And Trollerak has bestowed the power of unstoppable trollery upon you. Once you start trolling, nothing can stop you from trolling. Not logic, common sense or pretty pictures w/ words.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Juggernaut's super strength and unstoppablility aren't the same thing. It's not a matter of strength. He's not stopping Juggernaut just like he's not picking up Mjolnir.

Originally posted by ODG
I've reduced the size of the original idiot-proofed picture that Branlor Swift made for you. And I've used CAPS to highlight exactly what we think you are ignoring, and have been ignoring for pages now: Unless you think Juggernaut's foot is really that grossly elongated for no reason whatsoever, Juggernaut was throwing a running uppercut directly at WWH exactly before they locked up. Ergo, Juggernaut was moving towards WWH and had momentum. And by even your own unproven standards, since he had momentum, he was unstoppable. But WWH stopped him.

If you can't admit to this, then I have no choice but to conclude you've been enchanted by the 9th member of the Octossence: Trollerak. And Trollerak has bestowed the power of unstoppable trollery upon you. Once you start trolling, nothing can stop you from trolling. Not logic, common sense or pretty pictures w/ words. Strawman is made of straw. If you can't directly address what we're saying, then don't.

You are under the assumption that the ground is going in a perfectly straight line despite the obvious unevenness. Juggernaut's foot placement is further proof of the damage the ground had already sustained at that point.

That picture helps prove my point actually.

^ There are no words to describe this.

Branlor Swift apparently didn't idiot-proof the picture enough. I mean... that you would assume there is some outcropping of rock beneath Juggernaut's foot for absolutely no reason, despite the very next panel showing a cracked, but completely level courtyard... just makes me want to smother babies in their sleep.

There is no hope. Trollerak is upon us.

Originally posted by Odekahn
You are under the assumption that the ground is going in a perfectly straight line despite the obvious unevenness. Juggernaut's foot placement is further proof of the damage the ground had already sustained at that point.

That picture helps prove my point actually.

This is just a Brawl.

^ Trion Trollerak rite here.

Originally posted by ODG
^ There are no words to describe this.

Branlor Swift apparently didn't idiot-proof the picture enough. I mean... that you would assume there is some outcropping of rock beneath Juggernaut's foot for absolutely no reason, despite the very next panel showing a cracked, but completely level courtyard... just makes me want to smother babies in their sleep.

There is no hope. Trollerak is upon us.

ODG, there's pieces of the ground flying up in the middle of the air from the force of their blows.

Look at the ground in the panel right BEFORE that one:

No matter what gets said or how weird their arguments, I think I have to give huge kudos to Odekhan and Batman-Prime for their sense of humour.

This thread and the Batman/IM thread... Really the most fun KMC's been in some time, imo.

It takes opposing views, and masochists willing to be ridiculed and pilloried to make the world go round ✅.

That said, people should be banned from surfing the net whilst high. This would not only reduce the amount of aggro on forums, but also probably end all the cat pics.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The artistic interpretation is open to debate. But if he truly wanted to show Juggs moving toward Hulk he would have done so. He did it with WWH who was running at juggs before this.

This is just a Brawl.

👆

Originally posted by ODG
^ There are no words to describe this.

Branlor Swift apparently didn't idiot-proof the picture enough. I mean... that you would assume there is some outcropping of rock beneath Juggernaut's foot for absolutely no reason, despite the very next panel showing a cracked, but completely level courtyard... just makes me want to smother babies in their sleep.

There is no hope. Trollerak is upon us.

I don't know how you manage to refrain from punching right through the screen ... Juggernaut is just striking a pose, Voguing, whilst Hulk and the battlefield tilt towards him.

Originally posted by Odekahn
ODG, there's pieces of the ground flying up in the middle of the air from the force of their blows.

Look at the ground in the panel right BEFORE that one:

Was the ground completely uneven during the running uppercut and then the wonky unevenness of the ground magically straighted itself out? Is that what we're supposed to be taking from this scene, based on what happened two pages prior?

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the Unstoppable Trollernaut.

Originally posted by ODG
That's two pages right before the panels I posted. A scene from two pages prior, that is completely irrelevant to the panels ACTUALLY showing the charge directly AND which clearly show that the ground is even right at the spot where WWH stopped Juggernaut.

Was the ground completely uneven during the running uppercut and then the wonky unevenness of the ground magically straighted itself out? Is that what we're supposed to be taking from this scene, based on what happened two pages prior?

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the Unstoppable Trollernaut.

You are correct in that panel was two pages before. I said it was the panel right before, I was wrong. That's my bad.

With that point conceded, let's move on...

The artwork doesn't show a charge directly in that scan. It never shows them at any distance apart once they start swinging. How do you perform a RUNNING uppercut to someone you are already standing shoulder width apart from?

The ground was obviously uneven and even appears to dip downward where Hulk and Jugs are grappling.

Guys, cut out the bashing.

I really don't see what the issue is. They're moving towards each other and throwing punches.

What's the deal?

Originally posted by Odekahn
The ground was obviously uneven and even appears to dip downward where Hulk and Jugs are grappling.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, cut out the bashing.

I really don't see what the issue is. They're moving towards each other and throwing punches.

What's the deal?

Basically, I'm saying that WWH didn't overpower the enchantment because Jugs didn't have any forward momentum as they locked up. They came at each other, traded blows, were never shown at a distance again and the other guys are saying that the panel right before Hulk and Jugs are shown locking up, that Cain is performing a RUNNING uppercut at Hulk, thus he had momentum and Hulk did indeed overpower Cain's enchantment by stopping his charge dead in it's tracks.