Radiohead...

Originally posted by who?-kid
I beg your pardon ? Will you please quote me ? No wait, I'll quote myself

See ? I say exactly the opposite. Don't twist my words please.

Funny that, because I said:

"You're going on about liking something, the whole debate is about whether or not you have to "get" certain music, and it's a fact that you do."

And you replied with:

Originally posted by who?-kid
Nope. "Getting certain music" and "liking certain sounds" go hand in hand. Do you like every single instrument, sound, genre or voice there is ?

"Nope" seems pretty blatant to me.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're remaining a poor one, even in your attempt at humour I'm still ahead.

A) They're not "excuses for songs".

B) Nothing is so hard to understand. I don't care if you like them or not, the whole point was you not agreeing that you might not have given them enough time, as this music takes both time and effort. Then you went back on yourself, then back on yourself again.

I say : I don't like them for this and that reason.

You say : you don't give it enough time.

I say : I gave them time alright, but it still doesn't impress me, so I'm moving along.

You say : I can't accept it. No way Radioheads music sucks, so it must be you.

I say : whatever.

You're such a sharp learner.

Although not verbatim, it's true that I believe people who dislike Radiohead's later work (and it's not just them, it applies to a lot of bands) either don't get it or haven't gave it the time and effort.

Why can't you accept the fact that not everybody is interested in spending time in "discovering" Radiohead, and why can't you accept the fact that not everybody who actually HAS spent time in (re)discovering Radiohead is impressed ?

You obviously can't handle the fact that I believe you're one of those, and your comments have proven me right.

He's not a pop star because he doesn't make pop music. That's why he's not a pop star.

So the singer of a world famous band, known by millions, who has appeared in video clips and performed all over the world in all the known rock festivals...is no pop star ?

Pop star : popular star. Argue until the cows come home, but Thom Yorke and Radiohead are very popular. Not as popular as the true big guys (Madonna, Rolling Stones, U2), but they are not far behind.

Thom Yorke is definitely a pop star. A shy one, a bit of a weird one, in his own way a controversial one, but still a pop star.

I can't believe you are debating about this.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Really ? Could have fooled me.

I know I could have fooled you, doesn't seem like the most impossible of undertakings.

They are songs, regardless of what you think of them. Let's not get stupid.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Wrong !

I say : I don't like them for this and that reason.

You say : you don't give it enough time.

I say : I gave them time alright, but it still doesn't impress me, so I'm moving along.

You say : I can't accept it. No way Radioheads music sucks, so it must be you.

I say : whatever.

No, you're the one who's wrong. I said I don't think you've given them enough time, you said you've given them "time" (that could mean three listens for all we know). I never said I can't accept that, I accept that you don't like the music, I just maintain that people who dislike Radiohead's later work are either too stupid to "get" it or they haven't given it the time.

I don't believe you have given them enough time, simply because of the way you talk about the albums. I can tell you don't care to listen to them, so why should I assume you've given them time? The fact is, anyway, you can like or dislike Radiohead all you want, that's not the main, original issue.

The original issue is, some music takes more effort than others. That's what Tabby disagreed with and that's where he's wrong, as I have proven. Then again, he made that Hanson claim.

Originally posted by who?-kid
And that's where you're wrong.

Why can't you accept the fact that not everybody is interested in spending time in "discovering" Radiohead, and why can't you accept the fact that not everybody who actually HAS spent time in (re)discovering Radiohead is impressed ?

Oh I accept it, I embrace that. I prefer it the way it is, that doesn't mean I can't maintain my opinion.

You talk to me of acceptance, yet you seem desperately unwilling to accept that you might not be someone who can get it. You are doing exactly what I said you'd do. "No, I gave it time. No, I would have got it by now if there was anything to get.", why would you? Back to that human nature of "I can get everything.".

Originally posted by who?-kid
Yes you got me. I can't handle the truth.

Convince yourself, not me.

-AC

Originally posted by who?-kid

Erm ? Come again Forrest ?

So the singer of a world famous band, known by millions, who has appeared in video clips and performed all over the world in all the known rock festivals...is no pop star ?

Pop star : popular star. Argue until the cows come home, but Thom Yorke and Radiohead are very popular. Not as popular as the true big guys (Madonna, Rolling Stones, U2), but they are not far behind.

Thom Yorke is definitely a pop star. A shy one, a bit of a weird one, in his own way a controversial one, but still a pop star.

I can't believe you are debating about this.

"performed all over the world in all the known rock festivals...is no pop star ?"

No, for that reason. He's in a rock band, not a pop band. Being popular does not make you a pop artist.

Unlike other genre labels, pop HAS evolved from meaning "POPular" into an actual genre of its own. Pop is Britney, Madonna and Girls Aloud. Not because they are popular, but because of the music they make.

They make pop music, Thom Yorke does not make pop music. U2 make rock music, it just happens to be popular. It's not pop music, they're not pop stars.

By that retarded logic, Hendrix was a pop star, and if that's a claim you want to make, then I suggest you pack all hopes of being treated as if you have a shred of credibility into a case and go on a vacation out of the thread.

-AC

damn, i'm gone for a day and get left in the dust on this one. I could reply to alpha but you two seem "happy" enough at the moment, i'll let you guys finish first. Someone hold my place in line

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"performed all over the world in all the known [b]rock festivals...is no pop star ?"

No, for that reason. He's in a rock band, not a pop band. Being popular does not make you a pop artist.

And Radiohead stopped making true rock music a while ago.

Unlike other genre labels, pop HAS evolved from meaning "POPular" into an actual genre of its own. Pop is Britney, Madonna and Girls Aloud. Not because they are popular, but because of the music they make.

I find your definition a bit pretentious by the way. And also a bit confusing... Where do I classify Enya ? Pop star or no pop star ? Roy Orbison ? Queen ? REM ? the Beatles ? the Residents ? Pink Floyd ?

By that retarded logic, Hendrix was a pop star, and if that's a claim you want to make, then I suggest you pack all hopes of being treated as if you have a shred of credibility into a case and go on a vacation out of the thread.

Pop star = popular star (in the music world). They come in all kinds. If you insist on creating your own definition of a pop star, fine by me.

Originally posted by who?-kid
If I have to choose between a catchy, brilliant song that immediately captures your heart and a song that slowly unfolds itself after having listened to it 22 times - yes yes, I think I hear a melody, right there ! Did you hear it ? No ?- I choose the first one.

At first, I couldn't believe you were actually describing 'Mmm Bop' as brilliant. Then it sunk in, and I cried. I cried for you, who?-kid. - get it? No, I doubt it.

It's not a case of Radiohead needing multiple listens to recognise the melody, unless, of course, you are someone who requires remedial musical education...Wait. Don't answer that.

Seeing as you are rather passionate about telling us your ambivalence towards Radiohead, it would appear that you are - perversely - searching for a way to enjoy them. Therefore, I would suggest that you ignore the people who have told you that their later albums are 'unlistenable', and instead give 'Hail To The Theif' another go. '2+2=5', 'Sail To The Moon', 'Backdrifts', 'Go To Sleep', 'There There', and 'A Punchup At A Wedding' all have instant melodies, and it is absurd to say otherwise.

Absurd.

Now, excuse me while I go and wobble my head from side to side...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
At first, I couldn't believe you were actually describing 'Mmm Bop' as brilliant. Then it sunk in, and I cried. I cried for you, who?-kid. - get it? No, I doubt it.

Seeing as you are rather passionate about telling us your ambivalence towards Radiohead, it would appear that you are - perversely - searching for a way to enjoy them.

It's just my opinion. If you can't handle it, well, that's not my problem.

Therefore, I would suggest that you ignore the people who have told you that their later albums are 'unlistenable', and instead give 'Hail To The Theif' another go. '2+2=5', 'Sail To The Moon', 'Backdrifts', 'Go To Sleep', 'There There', and 'A Punchup At A Wedding' all have instant melodies, and it is absurd to say otherwise.

What's wrong with all these die hard Radiohead fans ? Can't they accept a no for an answer ? Apparently not.

And don't gimme that "it's growing music". I'm a big boy, I know what I like and know what I don't like. I said more than once that there is a lot of musicians or bands you have to give more than one try, but for me, Radiohead isn't one of them.

Get over it. Stop trying to convince me, it's not gonna work. Stop trying to make it seem like it's all a matter of intellect and nothing more.

It's a matter of taste. Nothing more. You can't debate taste.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Will you please quote me where I said that about "Mmm Bop" ? If you can't, I expect of course an apology.

Oh dear. Von Doom referenced Hanson, you responded:

Originally posted by who?-kid
If I have to choose between a catchy, brilliant song that immediately captures your heart and a song that slowly unfolds itself after having listened to it 22 times - yes yes, I think I hear a melody, right there ! Did you hear it ? No ?- I choose the first one.

Your reference to it isn't explicit, but it's an implied opinion nonetheless. If you don't understand that, then you shouldn't really be debating this point.

Originally posted by who?-kid
No I'm telling my opinion about Radiohead. That's what this thread is about. Nobody is making you to read my posts and agree with them.

It's just my opinion. If you can't handle it, well, that's not my problem.

That ship has sailed, my friend. Your continued presence here shows you care. We care that you care. Mothercare? Sure, I can see why you'd be shopped for there...

Originally posted by who?-kid
I don't have to justify myself to you why I don't like Radiohead anymore. I don't need no BIG REASON why I find they suck these days.

Yet you continue to do so...Isn't that peculiar?

Originally posted by who?-kid
Nice try. Metallica also performs in rock festivals all over the world. Do they make true rock music ? No. Same for Coldplay, Red Hot Chili Peppers. Even James Brown and James Blunt perform on rock festivals.

Coldplay actually make pop music, though. You can hear that in their music, same goes for James Blunt.

Chili Peppers admittedly have pop sensibilties but they're not a pop band. Nor is Thom Yorke a pop star, you have no clue what you're on about.

Originally posted by who?-kid
And Radiohead stopped making true rock music a while ago.

They stopped making traditional rock, not true. This doesn't mean they're making pop music.

Originally posted by who?-kid
No no no no no.... the term "pop star" refers to the most popular people working in the music world. Like Thom Yorke.

No, it refers to Britney and Justin, nowadays. Thom Yorke is not a pop star he is just popular. The two aren't inherently linked, man.

Originally posted by who?-kid
I find your definition a bit pretentious by the way. And also a bit confusing... Where do I classify Enya ? Pop star or no pop star ? Roy Orbison ? Queen ? REM ? the Beatles ? the Residents ? Pink Floyd ?

The Beatles were making pop music with their instruments, before it became the travesty it is. Enya? Hardly pop music.

Queen were a rock band, any other claim is utterly pathetic, as were/are Pink Floyd.

Originally posted by who?-kid
At the top we find the pop star. This can be divided in rock stars, jazz stars, singer songwriters, producers, country stars and so on. A famous producer - Rick Rubin or Phil Spectre for example - can become in his own way a pop star. A small one of course.

No, this is just you talking directly out of your ass to have something to say. Your idea of "pop star" is idiotic, based on the fact that you believe Thom Yorke, James Brown and Queen are/were pop stars.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Pop star = popular star (in the music world). They come in all kinds. If you insist on creating your own definition of a pop star, fine by me.

It's not my own definition, it's you adhering to a prehistoric one that no longer applies. One of the few music terms that actually HAS evolved into meaning something else.

Answer my question: Jimi Hendrix; pop star? I think we can openly admit that no, he was not.

Furthermore;

Originally posted by who?-kid
And don't gimme that "it's growing music". I'm a big boy, I know what I like and know what I don't like. I said more than once that there is a lot of musicians or bands you have to give more than one try, but for me, Radiohead isn't one of them.

Haha, exactly as I said, almost verbatim.

"I'm a big boy, I know what I like and know what I don't like.". I.E: I don't get anything more out of Radiohead, therefore it's definitely not me, because I'm smarter, it must be that there's nothing there.

No, you're wrong, and clearly you're the one who needs to get over it. The fact (as that's what it is) is that there is a lot more to Radiohead than you are giving them credit for.

-AC

Wow, is this the new thing? Splitting every post up into single sentences and then reply? That sounds like soo much fun, but I want to go further...you know, do new stuff, like Radiohead with music and stuff. So, I'll try...(and I try and I try....but I will never understand...what do you see in him?...back to the post)

Originally posted by StinkFist462
oh god

What God? Whose God? Certainly not my God. Dude, you are ridiculous.

Originally posted by StinkFist462
this debate

That's what you call a debate? You make me sick.

de·bate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-bt)
v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates
v. intr.
To consider something; deliberate.
To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
Obsolete. To fight or quarrel.

http://dictionary.reference.com

Educate yourself!

Originally posted by StinkFist462
is

Can you hear yourself talk? Dude, just give up.

Originally posted by StinkFist462
still going on?

Blah, blah, blah....that's all you ever say.

Originally posted by StinkFist462
AC

I'm not AC, what the hell. You don't even know what you are talking about (which is quite clear to anyone with half a brain.

Originally posted by StinkFist462
he doesnt like

So, now you may speak for other people? Pathetic.

Originally posted by StinkFist462
radioheads

Who are Radiohead?

Originally posted by StinkFist462
newer stuff. get over it.

THat's not even worth replying top. FACT. I will leave it there.

"How do I love thee? Let me count the ways..."

- Not Shakespeare.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Wow, is this the new thing?

Nah.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nah.

-AC

I like that one, have to write it down.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Your reference to it isn't explicit, but it's an implied opinion nonetheless. If you don't understand that, then you shouldn't really be debating this point.

Of course, if I had known you would have joined the debate, I would have written it down in a more easy way for you to understand.

See, I'm a nice guy.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Coldplay actually make pop music, though. You can hear that in their music, same goes for James Blunt.

The reference to Coldplay and James Blunt was to show that pop artists also perform at rock festivals. To show there is no big fat line separating the pop artists from the rock artists.

No, it refers to Britney and Justin, nowadays. Thom Yorke is not a pop star he is just popular. The two aren't inherently linked, man.

Will you give me your definition of a pop star ?

Enya? Hardly pop music.

Still no pop star ?

Queen were a rock band, any other claim is utterly pathetic, as were/are Pink Floyd.

Yeah, "Dark Side of the Moon" is one mean rock track after the other.

No, this is just you talking directly out of your ass to have something to say. Your idea of "pop star" is idiotic, based on the fact that you believe Thom Yorke, James Brown and Queen are/were pop stars.

Pop music is a huuuuge genre that is divided in lots of sub genres such as rock, country, jazz, chanson, rap, ambient, blues, techno... You just don't get this simple statement.

It's not my own definition, it's you adhering to a prehistoric one that no longer applies. One of the few music terms that actually HAS evolved into meaning something else.

Answer my question: Jimi Hendrix; pop star? I think we can openly admit that no, he was not.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
"How do I love thee? Let me count the ways..."

- Not Shakespeare.

Are you sure...because it says 'thee'.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Are you sure...because it says 'thee'.

Oh, I thought he jsut mispelt "the" ... weird.

No, you're wrong, and clearly you're the one who needs to get over it. The fact (as that's what it is) is that there is a lot more to Radiohead than you are giving them credit for.

Do you know the Greek composer Vangelis Papathansiou ? No harm done if you don't know him. Anyway, he has composed a lot of different music styles, you name it, he composed it.

In the seventies, he made a controversial avant garde album called "Beaubourg". It was a collection of bizarre sounds, noise, disturbing impressions without any structure at all - or so it seems.

Because I was a moderate Vangelis fan a few years ago, I decided to give it a try. Even I didn't like it, and I was already used to his sometimes weird song structure or instruments.

Let's say you - Alpha Centauri - have the chance to listen to a disturbing album like "Beaubourg". There's a big fat chance you won't like it all (trust me) - don't feel dumb however, most people don't like it.

=> Now my question to you is : why wouldn't you like it ? Why can't Vangelis say (like you say all the time) : you didn't try enough ! You didn't try hard enough ! My music is too experimental, so you have to try more ! Until you get it ! You're too dumb ! Listen to it again ! And again ! Until you get it !! My music isn't wrong, it's you !