God / Religion Thread [merged]

His proof of the existence of god is about cause and effect.
The problem is that the cause - god is perfect - did not came out of nowhere.

According to Descartes, everyone has the idea of a perfect god inside him- or herself. That idea is not ours since human beings are imperfect. So god himself (being perfect) has caused that idea.
But I' ve been told about god since I was little so the idea came from my parents, teachers,... therefore I can' t belief his proof. If I never had heard about god before and if I had that idea then I would have believed it.

3. That the world as we know it exists.

GOD has made everything ever created. HE IS THE ONLY1, THE SOUL CREATER OF THIS PLANET. THE REASON Y V R LIVIN IS BECAUSE OF HIM. HE HAS GIVEN US A TEST OF HOW V DO IN THIS LIFE. HE HAS NO PARTNERS, HE HAS NO SON! HE IS who i fear

Well, Descartes swore exactly that- that it was known to people who had never been told.

And he only concluded 3, Storm, BECAUSE of 2. He said God would not create an unreasonable world. Do not believe 2 and you cannot believe what he says about 3.

Were it not for that, Descartes concludes that only knowledge gained through reason, rather than sense, has any validity and even that, of course, can be questioned.

But he WOULD say that- he was a mathematician. Like I say, one has to be careful with Descartes- very clever, but oh so slightly nutty.

Incidentally, I don't think Descartes would have believed your refutation either. He would have told you that your teachers and parents could only have told you an imperfect idea. The perfect idea which he says you know could not have come from any human source.

And he really did say he had proven God's existence with maths...

I know he concluded 3 BECAUSE of 2.
😂 slightly nutty

Hmmm. This is all quite interesting. I actually do believe in God and Jesus and all that. But I definately don't fit into what you would call a typical "Christian" or "fundamentalist" system of belief. I'm not really sure I want to get too involved in this discussion, though. Like Ush said, it could turn bad. I don't have a problem discussing these things, but I also don't feel that anything I say or do will change anyone else's mind. I'm certainly not going to try to force anything I believe on any of you. 😉

Yeah, moist people quietly shelve that bit when talking Descartes. Up to thatr, his proof-through-doubt thing is, as you say, very interesting.

But trying to philosophically prove the existence of God is always a dead duck. You can only debate the merit or otherwise of faith, not whether it is justified or not.

So quoting all these ppl is cool but what do YOU think?
Storm and Ush.

jumi>>> I also don' t have the intention to force anything on anyone nor changing anyone else' s mind. It' s just very interesting to discuss.

and I meant juli

I really don;t want to get involved with the debate with my own opinion, Kes, though I am always happy to talk about off-shoots.

Exactly. And, you know, my views change over time, as my perspective of life and the world around me changes. I think most of us grow up being "taught" something by our parents - either in their words or actions - about what they believe concerning God, afterlife, etc. But as we get older, and have our own "life experiences", we really develop our own ideas. Of course, I think we are all still influenced continuously by others - be it teachers, friends, other family members, the media, books, etc. - even these forums! But I still don't have any desire to perpetuate my beliefs here.

I agree

well everyone already knows my idea's about religion and god

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I really don;t want to get involved with the debate with my own opinion, Kes, though I am always happy to talk about off-shoots.

Simple question: Do you believe in God or not?
Simple answer: Yes or no. Theres no need to go further and nobody is going o enforce ones point of view.

Very naive, Kes. I have seen this get very nasty before. I have already told YOU, anyway. By principle I do not think it is a great idea to discuss it and I would be hypocritical to say that and then declare either way.

hmm some ppl just dont want to talk about that kinda thing

Yeh I know it can get nasty.

as long as everyone behaves it won't turn nasty

true but with so many ppl and so many variables it's hard to make sure of that