Anakin turning to Vader

Started by Ushgarak3 pages

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How can you be tricked itno serving the Dark Side?

Anyone can be fooled into doing something evil, but not everyone becomes Darth Vader and help bring down a Republic. To talk about Vader being tricked into the Dark Side removes responsibility for all his actions from when he becomes Darth Vader until the end of Return of the Jedi.

Surely there has to be a predisposition towards evil or the Dark Side (if you prefer) that is present in Anakin. If Obi-Wan was "tricked" into doing something evil would he turn into a Darth? No - he'd be horrified but then he'd try to make amends for what he had done. The way Anakin reacts after being tricked says volumes about his personality.

Is it just me, or is this all part of Mr Lucas' re-invention of Darth Vader as he wants Anakin to be the the focus of the six films? That small little kid called Anakin from the Phantom Menance is going to torture a Princess to find out where a rebel base is, lure his own son into a trap by torturing his son's friends, plot to take over the Empire by corrupting Luke and develop a habit of choking people to death that he doesn't like.

Now it seems it was all ok for him to do this for twenty years or so because he was tricked into it and Vader "has problems too".

Wait a moment... born in 1972... using a name from the same source as me... exact same opinions as me...

OH MY GOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!

(Runs and hides)

He's right, though.

The Uush strikes back 😂

Not entirely unobservant...

We still don't know what Lucas meant by "tricked". It could be the situation that Anakin is in when he turns to the dark side.

Remember Vader tricked Luke into running to Cloud City to save Han and Leia when his training wasn't ready. Luke knew that he would probably face Vader but had know idea of what Vader would tell him.

It could be the same for Anakin. The Emperor sets things up (death of his mother?) to get him to turn. It doesn't mean Anakin wasn't responsible for turning. It just means that the Emperor set things up to make it easier.

It's a test and Anakin fails because he turns. It's still his fault.

One thing that is sure:
if you were in the same situation you would do the same
-> quote of GL

lucas's reinvention of darth vader???
Shock horror....you'd think it was his character or something! The nerve of him!
You would think he'd at least have the decency to consult every fan before writing his movie!

Don;t be silly. It is perfectly in keeping to criticise someone for changing what was established about a character in a different movie. Brith wasn't claiming executive rights over Vader's personality, just saying that Lucas will rather sell out the Vader concept if it is made to seem that Anakin turned throuygh anything other than his free will.

People are all too quick to make claims like 'fanboy' when someone makes a legitiamte (but only potential) criticism like that, when it is just a fair comment.

That said, I think Brith is over-worried there. That 'tricked' comment is just one breif word said casually in an interview; could mean absolutely ANYTHING right now. I am confident that GL will show a strong moral dimension in Anakin's fall; it won't just be a case of 'Oh bugger, NOW look what I've done! I've fallen to the Dark Side! Oh well, may as well make the best of it...'

Nom when he says 'tricked' I think he just meant the set-up for the whole thing. After all, Palpatine is going to lie to Anakin at some point, we all know it.

Originally posted by Angelus
lucas's reinvention of darth vader???
Shock horror....you'd think it was his character or something! The nerve of him!
You would think he'd at least have the decency to consult every fan before writing his movie!

being very sarcastical in your comments lately, ey? 🙄

Very clumsy sarcasm, at that.

Sarcasm is a good thing.

Ushgarak seems to have covered most of my reply - my concern would be that an attempt to down play the "evilness" of Anakin in the first three is going to clash with the Vader already established in the last three.

You could call this character development but my argument is that it isn't consistant, which is why I used the word "re-invent" in a pejorative sense.

I still feel that the use of the word tricked is significant - the phrase the Emperor lured or seduced Anakin into turning to the Dark Side instead wouldn't cause me any concern. But trick does imply that the whole "servant of the Dark Side" phase of Anakin's career wasn't Anakin's fault. Which to me, given Vader's actions in the last three films, doesn't seem credible.

Before anyone asks, when he says 'pejorative' he means he has made criticism out of a not necessarily critical word.

At what point do people think that Palpatine is actually going to start making his play for Anakin? Do we think he already has the idea in mind by the start of AOTC? Does he know anything about this Chosen One business?

Pejorative is a common enough term down my way...

Palp will make his play for the boy wonder in Ep 3 but will see something in him in Ep 2 that makes him think Anakin will be his new apprentice (third time lucky eh Palp).

As for the Chosen One does anyone other than Obi-Wan really believe it?

Well, Yoda's line 'The Chosen One the boy may be...' indciates that there is a split opinion on that, so I guess at least SOME of the Council does.

Yoda is just hedging his bets...
I think nobody really believes it, but no-one wants to go on record to say it just in case they are wrong and looks like an idiot.

Being wiped out by wrinkly old McDiarmid and his crippled apprentice didn't make them look TOO smart.

I think that they are also very cautious, I mean, he is too old and he knows anger, that gave him the 'strenght' to go to the Dark Side

What Angelus said was quite right.

At whcih point? Did you even read Brith's reply?

While the theory of over-zealous fans thinking that they have a etter idea of how Lucas should develop his own characters is, indeed, a proble, this was not what Brith was doing. He was simply pointing out that if Lucas goies down the road that Brith fears he might, then it will simply not be continuous with the character portayed in the Original Trilogy; a continuity error like any other. That is a legitimate fault to criticise- IF that is what happens, which I don't think it will.