Originally posted by carver9
Ok, now if that's what he is saying then I disagree. I thought you two was debating Wolverine damage soak. I'm out of this then.
Oh no, I completely agree that Wolverine has a great damage soak and that Batman isn't likely to be able to get around it very often.
I just disagree with srank’s explanation of how Wolverine is able to take cl 100 hits and that fights against cl 100 characters make up 90% of Logan’s career.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Oh no, I completely agree that Wolverine has a great damage soak and that Batman isn't likely to be able to get around it very often.I just disagree with srank’s explanation of how Wolverine is able to take cl 100 hits and that fights against cl 100 characters make up 90% of Logan’s career.
I think if batman goes on dodge mode and uses all his gadgets he could get a couple. Only problem this is a featurless envinronment, he would last much longer in a city or even forest envinronment. There are no obstacles in Wolverines way.
Originally posted by Deadline
The guy has stunned Proffessor Hulk, hes being doing stuff like that forever.
Cap sees bullets in slow motion...Cap has been described on panel as being as fast as Quicksilver, he has assisted in koing Hulk...talk smack to Odin. Beat up Namor, stomped Thunderstrike, ran through Spiderman and the list goes on. Cap is amazing.
Originally posted by carver9
Cap sees bullets in slow motion...Cap has been described on panel as being as fast as Quicksilver, he has assisted in koing Hulk...talk smack to Odin. Beat up Namor, stomped Thunderstrike, ran through Spiderman and the list goes on. Cap is amazing.
Not sure if thats sarcasm.....
Originally posted by Silent Master
I have no problem with that.
I'm thinking because of the featurless envinronment it could be 10/10 to Wolverine though....
Originally posted by carver9
That would mean that Batman is faster than Logan and he isn't faster than Logan. Wolverine would land a lick early in the fight and once that is done, the game is set and done.
No Wolverine is faster, but people like Batman use their speed more efficently. Wolverine can be really sloppy because of his HF.
Originally posted by Silent Masteru want an explanation, fine:
Oh no, I completely agree that Wolverine has a great damage soak and that Batman isn't likely to be able to get around it very often.I just disagree with srank’s explanation of how Wolverine is able to take cl 100 hits and that fights against cl 100 characters make up 90% of Logan’s career.
He takes that type of Damage cause his healing factor compensates for the blows he takes by repairing him.
Depending on his emotional state and adrenaline his healing factor can be increased doing a better job with dealing with the damage. it isnt always consistent sometimes he tanks a buttload of punches and other times only a few.
His healing factor is also adaptive as in it get better and more efficient with repetitive damage of the same type which means certain attacks become less effective in stopping him or injuring him.
His Adamantium also helps absorb and protect his organs allowing for higher blunt trauma.
a peak or low lvl human ko'ing without wearing down his healing factor is more often than not PIS>
Here is a small list of non cl 100's that Wolverine has fought. Even if we assume that Logan only fought each of these people once, srank's list would have to include 135 fights against cl 100 characters for his claim of 90% to be accurate.
Sabretooth
Omega Red
Lady Deathstrike
Deadpool
Silver Samurai
Ogun
Romulus
Daken
Cyber
Mr. X
Cyclops
Gambit
Spider-man
Punisher
Daredevil
Who here thinks srank can provide such a list?
Originally posted by carver9
Would you put Deathstroke giving Wonder Woman a fight in her respect thread or Shadow Dragon being too fast for Superman or Thor being sniped in the head or Hulk being knocked out by Captain America. Everyone have low showings and you should know this. Stop trying to low ball Wolverine because Batman would lose in a single panel.
Carv, what? Read to what i replied...
facepalm
Originally posted by Silent Master
Sabretooth
Omega Red
Lady Deathstrike
Deadpool
Silver Samurai
Ogun
Romulus
Daken
Cyber
Mr. X
Cyclops
Gambit
Spider-man
Punisher
Daredevil
Ignoring the Class 100 debate and whether or not Logan fights them more than he does non Class 100's, I think Batman could get the majority over maybe a couple of people here.
Originally posted by Nietzschean
Ragnorak
Namor
Thing
Wendigo
Sasquatch
Hulk
Gladiator
Juggernaut
Abomination
Colossus
Death Head
Hercules
Sentry
Skaar
Super Skrull
Red Hulk
Kierrok
Ulik
Uroc
Thorthose are just the ones i can remember off the top of my head that are in the 100 ton range more or less
This is basically almost every top tier in Marvel. You forgot Wonderman and Binary and classic Rogue.
Originally posted by Nietzschean
Ragnorak
Namor
Thing
Wendigo
Sasquatch
Hulk
Gladiator
Juggernaut
Abomination
Colossus
Death Head
Hercules
Sentry
Skaar
Super Skrull
Red Hulk
Kierrok
Ulik
Uroc
Thor
Dominathose are just the ones i can remember off the top of my head that are in the 100 ton range more or less
Only a 114 more names to go
Originally posted by srankmissingninPunisher won the fight. And its something Batman could totally replicate.
Punisher has never koed Wolverine with a grenade, he incinerated Wolverine's torso with a rocket launcher... and it didn't even ko him, he was still conscious and talking.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Elektra ambushed a half dead Wolverine (who was also missing part of his soul) while he was engaged in a fight, and stabbed him with a sai, not a knife.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin. IIRC it was stated to have almost killed Wolverine. Again Batman could replicate that with a Batarang. Do you have the scan?
Marrow stabbed Wolverine in the neck while he was helping her up... and it didn't do anything more than drive him into a berserker rage.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin. Yea its PIS because you say so right? DD has a 2-1-1 record on Wolverine in straight H2H.
Daredevil's neck chop is PIS that took place in an Ennis comic.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin.
No he hasn't lost plenty, he's lost a few, and largely due to PIS.
So again, whenever he loses its called PIS? If it happens over and over again it can't always be PIS.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin. Yea that's the one fight he won out of their 4 fights.
Daredevil, who he had incapacitated in full nelson in two panels even after Matt ambushed ambushed him.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin. So a fight where both were considerably holding back, IF holding back more than Wolvie in fact, and that counts as a win iyo?
The Iron Fist v Wolverine example, was akin to an exhibition fight. It's obviously not as concrete as a real fight would be, if we had one in the last three decades - but it's about as close as you can get otherwise. Especially considering the ego and cockiness of both characters. It's a bit different than infamous training match loses like Shiva v Robin, or Wolverine v Black Widow. It's was test of skill that both fighters willing agreed to show off their prowess a little, I'm willing to take it at face value especially because of the personalities of two characters like I said.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Anyway, that is legit wins over 4 of Marvel's earth based top 10 Martial Artists.
And that's not even refrencing his battles and losses against no namers I can go into.
Originally posted by srankmissingninAm I missing any other fights against street levels you wanna mention?
And that can go as high as 6 or 7 depending on the characters that fill out that top ten (which is not an unanimous agreement on KMC).
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
A lot more impressive than Batman's zero. It's to be expect of course, Marvel's streets throw down with each other more than often than DC's. Daredevil and Punisher alone have fought each other more than all the times Batman has fought a top 10 martial artist combined.
Batman has one of, if not the best records of all MA's in DC.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin. Zero hour was stripped from continuity in Infinite Crisis bromie
Batman fought Threeboot Karate Kid and a brain washed Karate Kid (Val might have been dying too, I can't remember when that story thread first emerged) who wore the same costume as Pre Zero Hour Karate Kid. Neither of them are anywhere near as skilled as the real Pre Zero Hour Karate Kid.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin. Batman looked more impressive than Shiva before Robin interfered. He was trying to reason with her instead of fight her and also disarmed her. In their second fight they were using martial arts moves against each other in classic speed blitz fashion. And there is no proof the mind control hindered her.
Only three of those characters (Shiva, Cass, Sensei) are top 10 level MAs and none of his wins over them are legit. Shiva has lost to Batman via interfernce from Robin, or when she was mind controlled.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin. Look above. I just proved you wrong.
Batman first defeated Batgirl in No Mans Land for the right to face David Cain. Then he defeated her in the actual straight up h2h portion of Batgirl #50.[QUOTE=13747528]Originally posted by srankmissingnin
[B] He's never been able to beat or even demonstrate any sort of advantage over in an actual fight.
Originally posted by srankmissingninThat was a training session. And Batman was far from being knocked out.
Batman appeared to get the better of Cass in a training match but the last panel suggest otherwise with Batman coughing blood and Cass with a knowing smirk.
Originally posted by srankmissingninBatman defeated Sensei via use of the environment, and straight up grit and willpower. Showcases Batmans own insane damage soak ability.
Sensei beat the crap out of Batman, then the fact that he is an old man with no stamina that literally can't expend himself for more than a minute caught up with him.
Batman defeated Sensei while blind, with a broken arm, while bleeding from a stab wound in his gut. Later in the same arc with these same injuries (except for the blindness I think) Batman goes on to defeat the League of Assassins and a newly reincarnated Rais Al Ghul.
Originally posted by srankmissingninBatman actually defeated Prometheus in the straight up H2H part of the fight and only resorted to tech when Prometheus shot him in the chest.
Batman rarely beats Prometheus without some tech aid.
Originally posted by srankmissingninZeiss was an enhanced top level MA that could see and process everything in slow motion. Very similar to Midnighter. Zeiss has the best technical reactions in DC streets.
Zeiss? Who cares.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin. David Cain trained Batman and BatGirl and many other A List MA's. He stalemated Batman in their first 2 fights as an old man past his prime. Nearly defeated BG with a broken arm.
David Cain? Who cares.
Originally posted by srankmissingninTop level MA with enhanced stats. Similar to Captain America. Who cares about that amirite? lol
KG Beast? Who cares.
Originally posted by srankmissingninAnother enhanced Super Soldier similar to Captain America. He defeated Aquaman straight up.
NKV Demon? Who cares?
Originally posted by srankmissingninKatana is a top level MA with bullet time reaction speed.
Katana? Who cares?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin. Actually Batman defeated Hawkman after being sucker shot while mind controlled from Despero. JLA 119 I think. The arc before Infinite Crisis.
Hawkman? Batman's never beaten Hawkman. He sucker punched him once, then got saved by Hal stepping in and stopping Hawkman from feeding Batman his own ass.
Originally posted by srankmissingninDS has also defeated Green Arrow, Hawkman, and Black Canary, and Flash and the Atom all at the same time. Hes fought the entire Teen Titans all at once in H2H and defeated several of them. DS is above the normal street level.
Deathstroke is a sloppy fighter who gets by on superhuman attributes and has been beaten by Nightwing several times.
So let's compare Batmans record:
(Win Loss Draw)
Vs Sensei 1 0 0
vs Shiva 1 0 2
Vs BG 2 0 1
Vs Azreal 2 1* 0 (*this was after Azreal had mastered The System and had superhuman level stats on the level of Spiderman)
Vs Prometheus 1 1* 0 (loss was off panel)
Vs Hawkman 1 0 0
Vs David Cain 1 0 2
Vs Zeiss 2 0 1
Vs Rais Al Ghul 3 1 2
Vs Bane 2 1 1 (or more)
Vs KG Beast 3 0 1
Vs NKV Demon 2 0 1 (can't remember if Bats lost or stalmated here)
Vs Katana 1 0 0
Vs DS 1 1 0
And that's not counting his wins against impressive no names either.
Wolvies record:
Win over Cap- his most impressive win
Dead even with Shang Chi
Losing record against DD
Losing record against Elektra
Losing record against Punisher *not an MA fight but lost due to gadgets*
Losing record against Nick Fury
Losing record against Daken
Losing record against a deer
Wow, impressive.