No. None of it should. Here's the problems:
The games can't be considered canon because they contradict the movies just as much as books. Games like Kotor introduce characters like Sion and Nihilus, which totally contradict the entire midichlorian theory. Then you have the Kotor Jedi Order, which destroys Lucas' depiction of the PT Jedi being in the "Golden Age" of the Jedi. You also have games like the Jedi Knight series. While Luke at this time should be a god, he's weaker than Kyle Katarn (I know this not only through experience, but through game code also). And Jaden Korr is stronger than both while still a padawan.
Then you have cartoons. The Clone Wars miniseries makes the Jedi look like gods, all of them with ridiculous abilities. Obi-Wan has a bit of trouble dealing with one, while Shaak Ti fights 12, without a saber. Then you have Yoda picking up armies of droidekas and throwing Seperatist frigates into each other. You've got Mace Windu punching through durasteel, dodging bullets, and pushing away an entire battalion of SBD's while unarmed and jumping to the peak of a plateau from aprox. 1 mile away.
Then you've also got books. The entire NJO series is ludicrous. Luke gets in 20 years what Yoda couldn't in 800. Jedi that have never been trained for the majority of their life suddenly become better than those that were trained since birth during the "Golden Age." Even with love, emotional attachment, and personal possessions, the NJO still has an extraordinary amount of Jedi still not falling to the Dark Side.
None of the EU should be canon, it not only contradicts the movies, but Lucas himself.
Originally posted by Se7in
No. None of it should. Here's the problems:The games can't be considered canon because they contradict the movies just as much as books. Games like Kotor introduce characters like Sion and Nihilus, which totally contradict the entire midichlorian theory. Then you have the Kotor Jedi Order, which destroys Lucas' depiction of the PT Jedi being in the "Golden Age" of the Jedi. You also have games like the Jedi Knight series. While Luke at this time should be a god, he's weaker than Kyle Katarn (I know this not only through experience, but through game code also). And Jaden Korr is stronger than both while still a padawan.
Then you have cartoons. The Clone Wars miniseries makes the Jedi look like gods, all of them with ridiculous abilities. Obi-Wan has a bit of trouble dealing with one, while Shaak Ti fights 12, without a saber. Then you have Yoda picking up armies of droidekas and throwing Seperatist frigates into each other. You've got Mace Windu punching through durasteel, dodging bullets, and pushing away an entire battalion of SBD's while unarmed and jumping to the peak of a plateau from aprox. 1 mile away.
Then you've also got books. The entire NJO series is ludicrous. Luke gets in 20 years what Yoda couldn't in 800. Jedi that have never been trained for the majority of their life suddenly become better than those that were trained since birth during the "Golden Age." Even with love, emotional attachment, and personal possessions, the NJO still has an extraordinary amount of Jedi still not falling to the Dark Side.
None of the EU should be canon, it not only contradicts the movies, but Lucas himself.
This is a mindset I'm coming more and more to understand and agree with.
Originally posted by Se7inMy god, this unbelievable true. I feel the exact same way.
No. None of it should. Here's the problems:The games can't be considered canon because they contradict the movies just as much as books. Games like Kotor introduce characters like Sion and Nihilus, which totally contradict the entire midichlorian theory. Then you have the Kotor Jedi Order, which destroys Lucas' depiction of the PT Jedi being in the "Golden Age" of the Jedi. You also have games like the Jedi Knight series. While Luke at this time should be a god, he's weaker than Kyle Katarn (I know this not only through experience, but through game code also). And Jaden Korr is stronger than both while still a padawan.
Then you have cartoons. The Clone Wars miniseries makes the Jedi look like gods, all of them with ridiculous abilities. Obi-Wan has a bit of trouble dealing with one, while Shaak Ti fights 12, without a saber. Then you have Yoda picking up armies of droidekas and throwing Seperatist frigates into each other. You've got Mace Windu punching through durasteel, dodging bullets, and pushing away an entire battalion of SBD's while unarmed and jumping to the peak of a plateau from aprox. 1 mile away.
Then you've also got books. The entire NJO series is ludicrous. Luke gets in 20 years what Yoda couldn't in 800. Jedi that have never been trained for the majority of their life suddenly become better than those that were trained since birth during the "Golden Age." Even with love, emotional attachment, and personal possessions, the NJO still has an extraordinary amount of Jedi still not falling to the Dark Side.
None of the EU should be canon, it not only contradicts the movies, but Lucas himself.
And the sad thing is there's more. I haven't even mentioned the comics, which bring up retarded scenarios like Maul returning with mechanical legs and going to kill Luke on Tatooine, but only to be defeated by Obi-Wan. Or the return of Mace Windu with a mechanical arm who "Force Jumped" out of Palpetine's office, landed on a speeder, got fixed up, and hid for a coupld of years, then fights Anakin one-on-one, fair and square and loses.
There's even more problems with the fact that the KOTOR and JK series both don't have a single canonical ending. What further messes it up is they add features to both sides so both sides will be played, creating a confusion over which seems more realistic. It's so confusing, we don't even know the sexes of the Exile and Revan.
You've also got games BASED on the movie that contradict it. Anakin stabbing Dooku, Obi-Wan beating Grievous with a saber strike, Anakin taking the entire Jedi Temple with roughly 20 Clones and 3 dropships, Clones that are faster than Ataru-enhanced Yoda, and Anakin fighting through a wave of Neimodians before slaughtering the Seperatist leaders.
The main reason the EU is so full of plotholes and can't be considered canon is due to organization. Authors of books, writers of comics, developers of games, and artists of the cartoons make their products for shock value. They don't check viable sources (i.e. Lucas and co) to make sure what they are making is even tied in with the series. Most people make these products wanting fans to say "Wow, this is cool," rather than "Wow, this ties in with the series nicely and allows the entire series Lucas has worked for three decades for to make sense."
All EU sources are the reason for the horrible threads like "Ragnos and 70 HK's can take the entire Jedi Temple," or "NJO Luke pwns Ragnos," or even "Yoda beat Sidious."
No, the EU should not be considered canon. Thanks to Tangible God and Janus for agreeing. Somone finally understands me.
Originally posted by Se7in
And the sad thing is there's more. I haven't even mentioned the comics, which bring up retarded scenarios like Maul returning with mechanical legs and going to kill Luke on Tatooine, but only to be defeated by Obi-Wan. Or the return of Mace Windu with a mechanical arm who "Force Jumped" out of Palpetine's office, landed on a speeder, got fixed up, and hid for a coupld of years, then fights Anakin one-on-one, fair and square and loses.There's even more problems with the fact that the KOTOR and JK series both don't have a single canonical ending. What further messes it up is they add features to both sides so both sides will be played, creating a confusion over which seems more realistic. It's so confusing, we don't even know the sexes of the Exile and Revan.
You've also got games BASED on the movie that contradict it. Anakin stabbing Dooku, Obi-Wan beating Grievous with a saber strike, Anakin taking the entire Jedi Temple with roughly 20 Clones and 3 dropships, Clones that are faster than Ataru-enhanced Yoda, and Anakin fighting through a wave of Neimodians before slaughtering the Seperatist leaders.
The main reason the EU is so full of plotholes and can't be considered canon is due to organization. Authors of books, writers of comics, developers of games, and artists of the cartoons make their products for shock value. They don't check viable sources (i.e. Lucas and co) to make sure what they are making is even tied in with the series. Most people make these products wanting fans to say "Wow, this is cool," rather than "Wow, this ties in with the series nicely and allows the entire series Lucas has worked for three decades for to make sense."
All EU sources are the reason for the horrible threads like "Ragnos and 70 HK's can take the entire Jedi Temple," or "NJO Luke pwns Ragnos," or even "Yoda beat Sidious."
No, the EU should not be considered canon. Thanks to Tangible God and Janus for agreeing. Somone finally understands me.
'Visionaries' isn't considered EU. It's essentially a collection of fanfics from some of the concept artists and whatnot of Lucasfilms. There's absolutely no canonical value to them. And when did this Mace story come up? I've never even heard of it, although I won't doubt its existence. I'm guessing from Star Wars Tales, in which case, same as above. It has no canonical value; just a story thought up by some bored author who wanted to something with Star Wars.
On the KOTOR and JA points, I wholeheartedly agree. There should be a set gender, species, etc. for the characters involved, if only to lay down a solid basis for a good story. However, this would in certain ways deduct from the fun and replay value of the game, for obvious reasons. Hence why it is done; game producers care little for canon and EU. All they care about is making a good game, and that is, surprisingly enough, where most problems arise.
There is an apparent reason for that, and that is to add a twist to the game, to make it seem like a series of events that follow the movie, but are not bound completely to it. Plus, how well do you think decapacitation would go with a T-rated game?
Again, I totally agree. I mean 'The Crystal Star' and 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye' were beyond ridiculous, as are many other novels, because of the reason said, but also because their authors are just so goddamn stupid.
In a nutshell; I agree with you. But there are several notable EU sources that are very well done, and that I would like to see made canon. (Labyrinth of Evil, The Cestus Deception, the 'Republic' series) But as for the others? Not really. Many videogames in particular completely screw with the plot of the movies. So, as a whole, I wish EU to remain EU. BUt there are certain works that well deserve to be incorporated into the realm of canon.
SE7in's right.
Though some things, like a few games or comics, might not be considered canon, too many people believe them to be and it unofficially becomes canon.
Vitually all of EU contradicts the movie and the original story. The midi-chlorians may be movie but they're a dissapointing blow to the nature of the Force that we, the generation that grew up without them, love. The problem is, they go and make the Force, (coughs), *ahem,*......tangible. Instead of the omnipotent Force, we now have the Force being directly linked organically and biologically to beings.
They tend to be a big problem when looking at the Jedi and the Force, in whole, over the timespan of SW. Too many unresolved arguments over them.
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
'Visionaries' isn't considered EU. It's essentially a collection of fanfics from some of the concept artists and whatnot of Lucasfilms. There's absolutely no canonical value to them. And when did this Mace story come up? I've never even heard of it, although I won't doubt its existence. I'm guessing from Star Wars Tales, in which case, same as above. It has no canonical value; just a story thought up by some bored author who wanted to something with Star Wars.On the KOTOR and JA points, I wholeheartedly agree. There should be a set gender, species, etc. for the characters involved, if only to lay down a solid basis for a good story. However, this would in certain ways deduct from the fun and replay value of the game, for obvious reasons. Hence why it is done; game producers care little for canon and EU. All they care about is making a good game, and that is, surprisingly enough, where most problems arise.
There is an apparent reason for that, and that is to add a twist to the game, to make it seem like a series of events that follow the movie, but are not bound completely to it. Plus, how well do you think decapacitation would go with a T-rated game?
Again, I totally agree. I mean 'The Crystal Star' and 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye' were beyond ridiculous, as are many other novels, because of the reason said, but also because their authors are just so goddamn stupid.
In a nutshell; I agree with you. But there are several notable EU sources that are very well done, and that I would like to see made canon. (Labyrinth of Evil, The Cestus Deception, the 'Republic' series) But as for the others? Not really. Many videogames in particular completely screw with the plot of the movies. So, as a whole, I wish EU to remain EU. BUt there are certain works that well deserve to be incorporated into the realm of canon.
Oh my God, I swear Crystal Star made me drop a few IQ points, it was so horrible....thank god I never read Splinter of the Mind's Eye.
Anyway, Se7in, you've pretty much nailed it, as to why EU should not be canon.
Originally posted by Se7in
Because, if EU is canon or not could prevent and/or settle 90% of the horrible threads that place certain fighters or armies against others without sufficient information or contradicting sources.
This is what I hate about those stupid movie forum people...they think just because its EU it cant be used in an argument.