Is every orc once an Elf?

Started by envision3 pages

whos this melkor guy. i havent read into the history of LOTR (yet)

Was he like the sauron of the 1st age?

Kind of. Before the first age one of the valar (most powerful of all the gods, a step up from sauron) named melkor desired to rule all of the earth. So battles raged on against him throughout the first age. At that time Sauron was a servant to melkor.

Wow, he was under someone!! Sauron, humm, a servent, hee hee hee hee hee hee hee. sorry that is so funny to me!

he actually used to be good looking too. weird........

why is that weird?

because he's so twisted and evil. evil people are supposed to be ugly so that it's easier to hate them.

he was morgoths leutenant (sp?)

melkor was a valar, he was later named morgoth by feanor, morgoth meaning black foe of earth. equal in power to Manwë himself, who was Melkor's brother in the mind of Ilúvatar. While the Valar descended into Arda to order and govern wisely, though, Melkor sought power for himself alone, and sought to bend all things to his own will. All that the Valar made, Melkor looked to destroy; long before the Elves awoke, he threw down the Lamps of the Valar, destroying their dwelling in Almaren. They removed to Valinor, and fearing for the coming Elves, made war on Melkor and imprisoned him for three ages. By the time he was released, the Elves had come to Valinor; Melkor turned back to his evil ways; slaying Finwë and stealing the Silmarils, he destroyed the Two Trees of Valinor and fled back to his ancient fortress of Angband in the north of Middle-earth.

well.......... ok then. interesting.....

quote: "no gabriel i know what you mean, uruks in the book are orcs and men bred together"

But in the movie Saurman says that the uruks are made by breeding goblins and orcs together. But since the books say men and orcs, I'd have to go with that one for sure!

is awful but is the truth the orc was once an elf

lol i know orcs so sexy, much improvment on the hideous elves

Originally posted by eldarion
quote: "no gabriel i know what you mean, uruks in the book are orcs and men bred together"

But in the movie Saurman says that the uruks are made by breeding goblins and orcs together. But since the books say men and orcs, I'd have to go with that one for sure!

I don't remember that, Half-Orcs are Man and orc, Uruk-Hai were never that.

i've got a lovely bunch of coconuts, deedle dee dee dee................

Uruk-hai were half man half orc in the books as i recall. thats how they were able to keep such a pace in TTT during the daytime!!

That film turns that round a bit... no Uruk-hai arent basically orcs and men - these were called halforcs 😉 😉
Uruk-hai were originally NOT an invention of Saruman but an own bigger orc race... sauron already used them far earlier in the third age.

It was implied in the TT by Fangorn that the Uruk-Hai had men-blood (although not necessary half-men.) And that's what I believe. The Histories can say whatever they want, but as they are drafts that are times contradicted, anything in the book itself takes precedence. However, since it's only IMPLIED, then it's a matter of personal opinion IMO. Unless Tolkien addressed it in a letter?

Goblins are Orcs are the same thing. Tolkien changed the name because he didn't want images of what people think "goblins" to be ruining his creations. The Hobbit was later edited, to make sense of it, but the job was done horribly to make it seem that Orcs are a type of Goblin, which is false (addressed by Christopher, I believe.)

Saruman's Uruks may have man blood but not all in general - they are an own race, as old as all other orc races!

Melkor destroyed the lamps of the valor with Ungalient!!! (shelobs mum!!!!)

~*Tanya

You mean Valar and Ungoliant...? Does that explain anything about this topic?

goblin=goblin men=men