The Beatles

Started by jaden10143 pages

Originally posted by Ushgarak
'Throughout the world' is an exceptionally lazy comment- let's go check out India and China, shall we? You are really going to tell me that all these Chinese villages, all those hundreds of millions out there, are swinging on a large hiphop vibe? I very much doubt it. It 'dominates' youth culture in some cities. It is hardly part of a mass social change, a wave the Beatles were on. And their part in that can be overstated, but it was actually there to an extent, which is more than can be said for the effect that most bands have had.

What the hell does it matter trhat the Beatles were forgotten by youth culture in the 90s? See, this shows up that you are not paying attention to the argument at all, hence that worldwide comment.

No-one is claiming that the Beatles had a large influence in 90s youth culture. What the heck is that?

The charge is that when people say that the Beatles were the most influential band everm they mean culturally. And obviously, that means they affected SIXTIES culture! But the claim is not that they influenced all culture for all time. it was simply that, of all bands, they had the most effect; that no single band has had as much effect on culture as The Beatles. Whatever you are trying to say about the reach of hiphop, The Beatles, on their own, achieved more. 'Let it Be' became the first ever Western song televised in the Soviet Union, at a time when televsion there as a household object was basically invented. This is huge in ways that your little drips of hiphop influence cannot hope to match.

And that is a claim that is very credible, as is clear from a small amount of effort taken to examine the phenomenon that was The Beatles. it has bugger all to do with what 90s youth listen to, Oasis or otherwise, and it is in a different league to a fad like hiphop.

No-one is ever going to look back at the acts you mention and say that they had a notable effect on culutre, historically speaking. Maybe the entire movement, but not the individual groups. wheras there very much is a case for saying that about The Beatles.

its seems like you are trying to imply that beatles were somehow responsible for the huge changes that happened in the 60's...the summer of love...the vietnam war and the anti war movement...

the beatles did latch onto alot of what was happening but they certainly didn't influence its instigation

did they start the rock n roll wave on which they rode?..no...

they were merely a popular band in an era of change...yet you somehow imply that they influenced that change...they didn't

Originally posted by bakerboy
Thanks, your not.

My not what?

I said Patton isn't in their league, you took it as me agreeing with how you meant it.

Originally posted by bakerboy
Thanks again, you are the same.

Nah.

Originally posted by bakerboy
The beatles mixed a lot of geners and in a lot of albums and years before patton. Fact.

That doesn't disprove my point.

Originally posted by bakerboy
Oasis are shit? I think that they have a lot of great stuff. Same with blur.

Blur had a false image to make fun of an existing image, they also made really good music.

Oasis are shit, stuck-in-the-past morons.

-AC

For the last foolish and insane ramblings from centauri:

If you are posting that that stuff from paul is bad, your musical taste is very odd.

I havent seen them live, but yes live concerts on dvd and tv, and their music was great. Not as good as when they worked on studio, but very good.

Originally posted by bakerboy
You are claming exactly the same arguments from me and another people that you atacked before, only with different names and people. Really confussing.

the point is that the beatles are credited as inventing a genre that had massive cultural influence...grand master flash is

not that hard to grasp really

Why are people discussing culture? I swear this isn't the Fame Forum.

Originally posted by bakerboy
I havent seen them live, but yes live concerts on dvd and tv, and their music was great. Not as good as when they worked on studio, but very good.

Then what place do you have to speak on how their live experiences compare? I have someone who was alive and seeing them at the height of their popularity, and he disagrees with you.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
My not what?

I said Patton isn't in their league, you took it as me agreeing with how you meant it.

Nah.

That doesn't disprove my point.

Blur had a false image to make fun of an existing image, they also made really good music.

Oasis are shit, stuck-in-the-past morons.

-AC

Not, Patton isnt in the same league than the beatles, doesnt care if you are still masturbating with him in your wet nights.

I think both are good groups.

The thing is, you said that patton was more influential because he mixed a lot of generes and styles and he did a lot of great albums. The beatles did the same before him and with less time.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why are people discussing culture? I swear this isn't the Fame Forum.

-AC

because the pro beatles crew know they've lost the musical influence angle and thus are trying a different approach

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why are people discussing culture? I swear this isn't the Fame Forum.

Then what place do you have to speak on how their live experiences compare? I have someone who was alive and seeing them at the height of their popularity, and he disagrees with you.

-AC

First thing, agree.

Lets see, in those videos and dvds i can hear the scream of the people and i can here his music. I know, not the same that being in the place, but i can pass judgment about their music and concerts because i have seen it. And i also knows some people who were in their concerts and they are agree with me, their work on studio was better.

Originally posted by jaden101
because the pro beatles crew know they've lost the musical influence angle and thus are trying a different approach

😂

C'mon now. That's a little extreme. Funny, but extreme.

Originally posted by bakerboy
Not, Patton isnt in the same league than the beatles, doesnt care if you are still masturbating with him in your wet nights.

I think both are good groups.

The thing is, you said that patton was more influential because he mixed a lot of generes and styles and he did a lot of great albums. The beatles did the same before him and with less time.

WOAH...wait...WOAH....are you saying he is not in the same league Musically as them?

The funny thing is that the anti beatles crew are copyng our arguments changing the names and the people without any proof.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nah, Oasis are pretty much shit...not the shittiest shit but shit.

😆

I swear the music forums have the nastiest of the KMCers in it.

Originally posted by BobbyD
😆

I swear the music forums have the nastiest of the KMCers in it.

I visit quite a few of KMC's forums, so it can't be due to me.

Originally posted by bakerboy
Not, Patton isnt in the same league than the beatles, doesnt care if you are still masturbating with him in your wet nights.

I think both are good groups.

You'll get over it, don't worry.

Originally posted by bakerboy
The thing is, you said that patton was more influential because he mixed a lot of generes and styles and he did a lot of great albums. The beatles did the same before him and with less time.

Haha, that's funny.

-AC

Originally posted by Bardock42
WOAH...wait...WOAH....are you saying he is not in the same league Musically as them?

To compare Patton( the artist, not the militar) place in music story with the beatles is just ridiculous.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, they made some classic albums. What's your point? I say they made some classic albums, you name the classic albums. What did you hope to achieve there?

Five classic albums in what, 8 years ? Not many bands can say that. That's something to take into consideration.
Classic doesn't always mean great through and through.

Pfft I don't know... it has to be pretty good before it can be considered a classic.
I really like The Beatles, for the record.

And I like them too. But I only have four albums of the Beatles, so I'm not the biggest fan ever. But on those albums, they defined pop music.
So what if they show up on "Best 100" lists? They're all opinion. I am well aware that popular opinion suggests something of The Beatles, but popular opinion also suggests something of Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake. Going by popular opinion or voted lists is like saying the MTV Awards are some kind of credible standard bearer.

Partially true. But again, it's something it has to be taken into consideration. You can't deny every single bit of respect they receive from fellow musicians.
They made 5 classic albums over two generations

Over two generations ? Didn't they split in 1970 ?
Mike Patton has released over twenty influential and genre-creating albums, not to mention influential, in about half that time, with as many bands as The Beatles have had albums.

And still, Mike Patton isn't that well known or influential. People who follow (alternative) music, know him. Musicians know him. People who follow pop/rock music, know him from his time with Faith no More.

Don't ask the average John Doe about Fantômas or Mr Bungle however. He wouldn't know what the hell you're talking about.

You want an influential band ? Try Radiohead, or to a lesser extent, Coldplay. Not Mike Patton.

They won't, and we both know that, but that's not the issue I'm talking about. I'm talking about popularity and how it affects the judgement regarding influence.

The thing you don't seem to realize, is that the biggest reason of their popularity, is because they made great music !
More and more people are shying away from sucking off The Beatles everyday, why? Because they're not as timeless as everyone says.

Nothing is timeless.
I honestly don't think there is one singular band, I just don't think The Beatles would be that band if there was.

You're avoiding the question. Until somebody gives me a more influential band than the Beatles, I stick to them.
The Beatles are more inspirational than they are influential.

That's playing with words.
The Beatles are just an inspiration, because they were so famous and also good. They showed you could be world famous and also talented. Inspiring someone to make music, and influencing that music are two totally different areas.

I know. Without the Beatles, some musicians would never have picked up a guitar. That's of course also influencing people.
When was the last time you saw The Beatles come out on top of a great musicianship poll that wasn't voted by retards?

Stop doing that. Like everybody who votes for the people, is an old hippie.
I'm not saying there's A band, I'm saying you could (and should) choose better than The Beatles.

I asked you who. You didn't answer the question...
Imagine wins best song in a lot of polls simply because John Lennon is dead and people think they have to vote for him. This doesn't change it being a great song, but it proves my point.

Imagine is a good song, but not that great. A bit overrated.
Go on then, give me a hundred names extra, it'll prove as much as all those names do. What's your point? Those people claim to, or were, inspired by/influenced by The Beatles. Sweet. This doesn't prove they were the most influential band ever, it means a shit load of bands have a common interest. You could do the same with Rush.

No I couldn't.
I'm not sitting here denying they were influential, but you're sitting there trying to prove they were without doubt (a.k.a fact) the most influential band ever. You cannot. You can only provide why you believe it.

And I provide a lot. You don't even look at it.
First, if you're referencing a source, best not make it a second rate theatre show and third rate musician such as Alice Cooper.

You got a point there. I could quote Bono, is that okay ?

Bono : What would have my life been, without the Beatles ?

The Beatles were never peerless. There are and have been extremely credible debates regarding The Beatles Vs The Beach Boys, The Beatles Vs The Rolling Stones.

True, but I don't want to turn this into a Beatles vs the Beach Boys vs the Rolling Stones thread. There are enough of them already.

I love the Rolling Stones by the way.

Zappa was peerless, Rush were peerless, Mike Patton is peerless. More importantly, they did it on their own, they didn't have their producer come up with ideas and then conveniently say "We thought the same thing!".

Peerless.... I don't know... I don't care about Rush and I respected Zappa more than I appreciated his music.
Yes, Ozzy. Front man of Black Sabbath. He said they inspired him and he wanted to be a Beatle. How much of The Beatles music do you hear in Black Sabbath's dark heavy metal? Not much, because inspiration does not equal influence. Tony Iommi is the one who more or less invented the heavy metal sound, I've never heard such comments from him.

So Tony Iommi is the one who should get shot ?
Do you have to continue? Continue showing us that The Beatles were very inspirational, popular and influential? No, because we know that, but if I were you I'd rephrase this "without doubt" malarky, or back it up.

I backed it up. I can back it up much more. But why should I ? I can give tons of examples of famous musicians claiming how the Beatles changed their life, but you won't accept it.

So tell me, why should I even bother ?

-AC

WK

Originally posted by bakerboy
To compare Patton( the artist, not the militar) place in music story with the beatles is just ridiculous.

Hey maybe influence wise...but his musical genius surpasses the Beatles (as great as they were) without a doubt.

Originally posted by bakerboy
To compare Patton( the artist, not the militar) place in music story with the beatles is just ridiculous.

And this is why popular opinion is damaging to music history.

It shows who was most popular, not necessarily best.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You'll get over it, don't worry.

Haha, that's funny.

-AC

You are a little vicious, centauri.

What is funny? Tell me because i love the funny things.

Originally posted by BobbyD
😆

I swear the music forums have the nastiest of the KMCers in it.

Let me clarify: some of the most passionate. 😎