"your father wanted you to have this..."

Remember that line from ANH when Obi-wan gives Luke his lightsaber? I think that line is KEY in what we will and will not see in Episode III. I just don't quite understand what it means yet. I haven't thought about it enough, but I wanted you guys and gals opinions. Heres the thing. Either Obi-wan is lying, or Anakin knew he had a son, but not a daughter.

This would seem to conflict with the line from ROTJ: "when your father left, he didn't know she was pregnant." While that line did not appear in the final movie, it was in the script. And GL wrote that AFTER he wrote the afore-mentioned line from ANH. So either GL caught the discrepancy and thus took the line out of ROTJ, or BOTH statements are true. Which in my mind, would make a confused mess.

And if Anakin really knew he had a son, and wanted him to have his lightsaber, that would mean he turned to the dark side, with the hope that his son would redeem him, and i just dont buy that.

I think that Anakin knew he had a son not a daughter but not the mess where he thought that Luke would redeem him.
"The future is always changing."
And Obi-Wan was most likely lying to Luke in that line from ANH.

What's not in the movie doesn't make any difference. Only what we see on screen counts.

All we can do is guess without seeing II and III.

I dont think Vader knows he has a son until after the battle of Yavin sometime when Vader finds out Luke's last name is Skywalker: "when your father left, he didnt know your mother was pregnant."

I also think Obi-wan was lying about the lightsaber. I think he somehow gets it after defeating Anakin at the end of EPIII.

In my personal theory, I think at the end of EPIII, we think Anakin is dead, probably killed by his own clone-why did qui-gon REALLY take a blood sample in TPM? (haha, just kidding) and Obiwan tells luke his father wanted to have it, when people watching the series in order will think Obi-wan is a lying SOB who took the lightsaber from anakins dead, chopped off hand. 🙂

as to TO's comment, what makes a difference is that GL PUT THAT IN THE ROTJ SCRIPT!!!!! why would he put a conflicting statement into the script?! Either he took it out of the final cut b/c he realized it conflicted with ANH or just because its too wordy, the fact remains that at some point, GL had obiwan say that. And I, personally dont think GL is that dumb to make a mistake like that.

it's in the script, it's not in the movie, it's (I think) not in the novalization... it's not cannon...

about the threadtitle: I think he just takes the lightsabre of Anakin after they fought and that OB1 thought that it was Anakins wish...

you miss the point, its not cannon, but GL had that in the script at some point! which means it was in his idea for star wars. although its not cannon, it still is his idea. which means we must either beleive he has changed his idea, or its still true, in which case there could be a VERY interesting sequence of events in EPIII....

I think it is part of Obi-Wan cover up "story" for Luke. By saying this he gets Luke more interessted in the saber, which again would lead to a bigger interesst of the jedi way.

if you say that the galaxies worst enemy is your father and that eventually he has to defeat him, then it's certain you would say no!

I think Obi Wan is deceptive in a lot of what he transpires to Luke....he says things to lead Luke one way and away from
another direction.....
Maybe this is to shield him from the temptations of the Darkside, while Luke is still vunerable....
As for Leia, I doubt Anakin ever knew of his daughter....
He just knew that Padame was pregnant....

first of all, i will argue until may 2005 that anakin does not know he has kids in the PT, and the movie ends with padme still pregnant.

secondly, i have been wondering alot about obi-wan's percieved duplicity. it seems that on top of misleading luke about alot of things, such as what happened to his father, he also lies to him about the lightsaber. in TPM, obi-wan doesn't have a touch of duplicity. In ANH, it seems most of what he tells luke is not entirely true, or atleast only true "from a certain point of view." It doesnt seem that mere old age could change obi-wan so much. Any thoughts as to the change in obiwans character?

Yes - for the umpteenth time - Obi-Wan and the remainder of the Jedi Council conspire to shepherd Luke through the events of the OT knowing only he can liberate Anakin from the Dark Side to fulfil his destiny, namely to bring balance to the force.

Anakin embraces the Dark Side in order to gain a full, rounded knowledge of the force and attain balance. Luke is the catalyst for Anakin's recovery. This is all foretold by the prophecy and Obi-Wan and Yoda are left the only guardians of the Destiny of the Force.

The key obstacle along the way - for the PT at least - is Dooku, who left the Jedi order to investigate the Dark Side himself under the delusion that HE is the chosen one. That explains why Dooku turned nasty - delusions of grandeur - and why he becomes Palpatine's apprentice, so he can get close enough to kill him.

By the end of Ep III Dooku will realise that Anakin is the true chosen one and that he is losing control so, to make amends for his foolish arrogance, he teaches the Ghost trick to Obi-Wan and Yoda and helps set up the events we see in the OT. The Ghost trick is part of the Dark Side art and an ability Dooku resurrected (pardon the pun) during his self teaching of the Dark Craft. He passes it on to the remaining Jedi to ensure the work of fulfilling the prophecy carries on even in the event of the Jedi's deaths and then, full of shame and regret, ends his own life totally.

There - my theory just gets wilder and wilder, doesn't it...

😉

nice theory, but I think it's a Light side thingie ... AND he has too teach it to YODA and OB1 in EpIII (like Yoda will ever leave his JC-room after EpII)

Actually, I have been thinking alot along the lines of Darthyogi as well. Has anyone thought about WHY GL decided to make Qui-gon and Dooku old friends, possibly even having a master/apprentice relationship? There is a very good reason for it, it's not supposed to be mere coincidence. While I have not heard rumors about Dooku beleiving himself to be the chosen one, I have had beleived for some time that Dooku will turn "good" at the end of EPIII.

Think about it. We are possibly told in EPII that Dooku was either Qui-gon's master, or his friend. Qui-gon dies and does not dissapear at the end of TPM. Why? To establish the fact that the Jedi do not know how to become Ghosts. After Tens of thousands of years, good jedi do not know this trick. Added is the fact that if Dooku does learn this trick, he didn't know it when he and Qui-gon were close, otherwise he would have told Qui-gon and qui-gon would have become a ghost.

So where does that leave us? The Sith are the new kids on the block. They have been gone for a LONG time. And a few years after the Sith come back, all of a sudden, certain Jedi learn to become Ghosts. That is NOT coincidence. I beleive it is POSSIBLE that the Dissapearing trick/becoming a ghost is something Dooku will learn, and as yogi mentioned, teach to Obiwan as a means of redeeming his own actions when he sees how palpatine has played him, and everyone else, towards his own ends.

Like minds indeed Bigsef2.

And my thinking goes on too - Qui-Gon never told the Jedi Council about Dooku's obsession and let them believe he just faded into obscurity. Meanwhile, Qui-Gon was operating under delusions of his own - he was out to find the TRUE chosen one in the belief that that would be enough to bring his old friend back from the Dark Side. His recklessness was a response the Jedi Council's dismissal of Dooku as a crank and their reluctance to join him in trying to rescue his old colleague, but Qui-Gon never gave up hope.

When Qui-Gon happened across Anakin he was of course duty bound to report him to the Council, but was also motivated by the desire to bring sense to Dooku - wherever he'd gone off to.

rumor has it it has something to do with the prophecy

I agree. I think there are even hints to a little more to the situation. Certain comments Qui-gon makes in TPM bother me. They don't seem consistant with what we know of the other Jedi. Sure, he's a rogue, and beleives in the "living force" as opposed to the "unifying force," but remember some of the first lines in the movie. Obi-wan senses trouble, and what does Qui-gon say: "I dont sense anything." A definative statement, from master to pupil. He is basically saying: 'Theres nothing to sense. Dont concern yourself with it. Concern yourself with the moment.' To a certain degree, I beleive that's a correct statement, but I also think he is trying to direct Obi-wan away from the greater mystery. Or it could simply mean Qui-gon was wilfully blind to what was going on. Don't get me wrong. I don't think he is an apprentice to Sidious or anything. There can only be two Sith, but do I think there is more to Qui-gon than meets the eye. And with his connections to Dooku, I am even more supsicious of him.

still no proof there is a difference between those "two" forces...

the website specifically says there is a difference. we also have the conficting descriptions of what the force is, given by ben to luke in ANH, and qui-gon to anakin in TPM. Qui-gon is wrong

I'm lazy, give me the link