So did Hashirama have like two faces or something?
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/575/12
http://www.mangareader.net/93-44811-11/naruto/chapter-478.html
The first Tsuchikage looks weird. Comb face is what I shall call him.
Gotta love Sasuke being funny in a completely unintentional way!
Sasuke: I sense someone approaching! *brandishes sword and charges* Wolverines!!!
Hmmm....some are mulling over the idea of Itachi just ignoring Sasuke. Would be hilarious/sad.
And I'd pretty much hate Itachi if he did.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Hashirama appears to be SS or SS-, eh?
This chapter makes it clear that Hashirama was uber, but the Edo Tensei Madara is supposed to be much stronger than him as he has a perfect copy of Hashirama's jutsu, his own jutsu (which are pretty uber too), and the Rinnegan. So either Hashirama goes into the same tier as Nagato, or ET Madara is moved up to SS+ while Hashirama goes into SS. Prime Madara is also supposed to be on the same level as Hashirama.
I also like how easily Madara pwned Onoki in the past. Onoki's on his belly and can barely move, while Madara isn't even scratched.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I do not believe Sarutobi was ever called the strongest Hokage: just god of the shinobi.I do not believe Minato was ever called the strongest hokage, as well.
So there's still room.
However, I would be happy to be proven wrong: I still have a soft spot for Sarutobi. 🙂
Pretty sure you considered Minato stronger than Hashirama some time before and how his victory over Tobi/Madara was better than Hashirama's victory over Madara. We debated this.
Originally posted by Q99
Bit I find interesting is that Kabuto does consider Hashirama stronger than Madara, rather than even.
Hashirama did best Madara after all. But yeah, they were supposed to be relatively equal.
But I found the fact that it was Orochimaru, not Kabuto, who created ET Madara, to be more interesting. Maybe that's what Suigetsu read in his scroll.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The first Tsuchikage looks weird. Comb face is what I shall call him.Gotta love Sasuke being funny in a completely unintentional way!
Sasuke: I sense someone approaching! *brandishes sword and charges* Wolverines!!!
Hmmm....some are mulling over the idea of Itachi just ignoring Sasuke. Would be hilarious/sad.
And I'd pretty much hate Itachi if he did.
I also liked how immediately after Kabuto said "no one can stop this Edo Tensei..." Kishi showed Itachi & Sasuke. awesome
I dunno. I was content with leaving Hashirama in S+. All that's really changed is the realization that he can summon plants to put people to sleep. And even Onoki handled that just fine. Sure he has myth wank going on, with people likening him to the Sage, but that's more informed wank than anyting.
He'd be the tip top of the S+ though.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
This chapter makes it clear that Hashirama was uber, but the Edo Tensei Madara is supposed to be much stronger than him as he has a perfect copy of Hashirama's jutsu, his own jutsu (which are pretty uber too), and the Rinnegan. So either Hashirama goes into the same tier as Nagato, or ET Madara is moved up to SS+ while Hashirama goes into SS. Prime Madara is also supposed to be on the same level as Hashirama.
Hm, and there's the matter that the combination seems to strengthen both.
ET Madara still seems SS to me, btw. While his 'presence' has increased by doing so, the wood he showed isn't on another level than his meteors.
It might be that the duo were SS- back in the day.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I do not believe Sarutobi was ever called the strongest Hokage: just god of the shinobi.I do not believe Minato was ever called the strongest hokage, as well.
So there's still room.
However, I would be happy to be proven wrong: I still have a soft spot for Sarutobi. 🙂
Apparently Hiruzen being strongest was said by Iruka or something in the first Databook, pages 117 and 265.
There is also this:
http://www.mangareader.net/93-145-3/naruto/chapter-140.html
... Though I am not exactly sure wtf Kabuto is trying to say here, the translation seems kind of suckish.
As for Minato, my mistake, I was misremembering Jiraiya thinking of him as the most gifted Shinobi ever.
I like Hiruzen too. Hashirama da bess though.
Chapter was pretty good. Madara is not disappointing. His Susano'o, while not possessing the brokenness of Itachi's, seems to allow greater mobility, allowing him to cut off the Kages easily and pummel them before they can react.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I dunno. I was content with leaving Hashirama in S+. All that's really changed is the realization that he can summon plants to put people to sleep. And even Onoki handled that just fine. Sure he has myth wank going on, with people likening him to the Sage, but that's more informed wank than anyting.He'd be the tip top of the S+ though.
I was just playing off Q99 and Dewdemon wanting to re-rank him.
He also does not summon plants to put people to sleep. He creates them, along with a massive forest that can crush anyone who cannot fly or dig or put up an insanely strong defence.
ET Madara is at the very least a tier above Hashirama if he has the full capabilities of Hashirama's Mokuton, as he also has the Rinnegan and his own jutsu.
Yeah, but Onoki is the most powerful Kage that is still living and it was due to Madara owning him years ago that he somehow woke up. 😛 The others didn't regain consciousness until Onoki used Dust Release to get rid of the pollen around them.
Originally posted by Q99
Hm, and there's the matter that the combination seems to strengthen both.ET Madara still seems SS to me, btw. While his 'presence' has increased by doing so, the wood he showed isn't on another level than his meteors.
It might be that the duo were SS- back in the day.
Yeah. ET Madara is the closest thing to the Sage we've had so far in terms of status. Only thing he lacks now is a Bijuu.
Not in terms of destructive capacity, but it can put an army to sleep as that forest was massive and it put the Kages to sleep in seconds. It isn't easy to destroy either.
Prolly. Even with their own uber abilities, they were also the first people that could use Bijuu as summons/tools, and they were good at it. Madara could even summon the Kyuubi.
Originally posted by NemeBro
http://www.mangareader.net/93-145-3/naruto/chapter-140.html... Though I am not exactly sure wtf Kabuto is trying to say here, the translation seems kind of suckish.
I think he's saying that Sarutobi was better than A and Onoki, which is odd, because no ****ing way.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I was just playing off Q99 and Dewdemon wanting to re-rank him.
He also does not summon plants to put people to sleep. He creates them, along with a massive forest that can crush anyone who cannot fly or dig or put up an insanely strong defence.ET Madara is at the very least a tier above Hashirama if he has the full capabilities of Hashirama's Mokuton, as he also has the Rinnegan and his own jutsu.
Yeah, but Onoki is the most powerful Kage that is still living and it was due to Madara owning him years ago that he somehow woke up. 😛 The others didn't regain consciousness until Onoki used Dust Release to get rid of the pollen around them.
Stfu. >_>
To be honest, he should be at least two tiers above him. He has Hashirama's best techniques, though he probably isn't as good, and the Rinnegan. He is Madara plus 2 overpowered things, so he should logically be 2 tiers higher than Madara without those things, who was rivals with Hashirama!
So all it takes to wake up is Heroic Resolve? awesome
Lol read this theory:
Naruto: What are you going to do about Kabuto and Edo Tensei?
Itachi: Every jutsu has a weakness.
*runs off and runs around for a while before passing Sasuke*
Sasuke: WTF!? *chases Itachi*
Itachi: (Plan to beat Kabuto: Let Sasuke do it. awesome)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
This chapter makes it clear that Hashirama was uber, but the Edo Tensei Madara is supposed to be much stronger than him as he has a perfect copy of Hashirama's jutsu, his own jutsu (which are pretty uber too), and the Rinnegan. So either Hashirama goes into the same tier as Nagato, or ET Madara is moved up to SS+ while Hashirama goes into SS. Prime Madara is also supposed to be on the same level as Hashirama.I also like how easily Madara pwned Onoki in the past. Onoki's on his belly and can barely move, while Madara isn't even scratched.
Madara before Rinnigan is about equal with Hashirama. That much is clear. Hashirama would be just a smidge stronger than pre-Rinnigan Madara.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Pretty sure you considered Minato stronger than Hashirama some time before and how his victory over Tobi/Madara was better than Hashirama's victory over Madara. We debated this.
I did. Hashirama would lose to Minato, still, even after this chapter's revelation. Minato, imo, is the absolute best 1 on 1 ninja fighter in the series. Minato also happens to be an excellent 1 vs many...but his real strength lies in being the absolute best ninja assassin.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hashirama did best Madara after all. But yeah, they were supposed to be relatively equal.But I found the fact that it was Orochimaru, not Kabuto, who created ET Madara, to be more interesting. Maybe that's what Suigetsu read in his scroll.
1. Ditto.
2. I hope that Orochimaru returns...soooo bad... pained
It would be awesome if Tobi was Orochimaru or some sort of Oro clone. He would be older than Minato. It would explain way Tobi keeps tons of body parts around in a lab, etc.
But I am sure someone has already thought of Oro being Tobi.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Apparently Hiruzen being strongest was said by Iruka or something in the first Databook, pages 117 and 265.
You sure?
Originally posted by NemeBro
There is also this:http://www.mangareader.net/93-145-3/naruto/chapter-140.html
... Though I am not exactly sure wtf Kabuto is trying to say here, the translation seems kind of suckish.
That is saying, potentially, two different things but none of which support your idea:
1. That the Hokage is always the strongest of the 5 kages because Konoha Nin are superb (most likely not it...but Tsunade wasn't around at the time).
2. Hiruzen was/is the strongest of the 5 kage. This one is most likely it based on the wording and other translations.
Originally posted by NemeBro
As for Minato, my mistake, I was misremembering Jiraiya thinking of him as the most gifted Shinobi ever.
He probably was, tbh. Had he lived another 15-20 years, he would have hit his prime and had all sorts of absurd techs.
Originally posted by NemeBro
I like Hiruzen too. Hashirama da bess though.
I like Hiruzen because he's a perv, powerful, smart, and loves his "family": all traits I admire in older male figures. 🙂 I aspire to be like Hiruzen one day. I've got the perv stuff down. 😄
Originally posted by dadudemon
What did you cover? If Tobi is a clone of Oro in some way...then the reasons you provided (iirc) would not be valid.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-58427-11/naruto/chapter-515.html
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
http://www.mangareader.net/93-58427-11/naruto/chapter-515.html
Like I said, that problem is solved if you consider that they branched off from each other somewhere between 16 and 20 years ago. 😄