The Official Naruto series Thread

UNS4 has Juubi Madara using a Perfect Susanoo that makes Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo look like an insect.

YouTube video

Must admit, I wish Juubi Madara used Susanoo in the manga.

EDIT: Bottom page'd myself. >_<

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It begs the question, "what did he swap with".

Space.
He doesn't need an object to swap with when using Amenotejikara. As per the VIZ translation, he says: "It's one of my abilities. I can shift myself between spaces. Though only over a finite distance." So he does not switch places with a physical object, but the entire space.
When he's moved other people with it, he hasn't swapped them with an object. Makes no sense for him to require a physical object for shifting himself, but not for shifting others.

Originally posted by SquallX
I don't think he needs anything to swap with. He only needs to swap with something when the ranges to long for him. I.E. Sakuras jacket.

That's from the wiki right? They based it on Sasuke switching places with the discarded flak jacket, and they interpreted that scene incorrectly. There is no range-extending aspect to his ability.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I read the same thing on the wiki, but I've received no real evidence that this is true.

1, 2, 3, & 4.

Honesty the range thing definitely seems to be true. For short-range teleports like 1, 3, and 4 he doesn't seem to require an object.

However, in #2 he switched with one of Naruto's orbs. Before that, he swapped with his sword when facing Madara. He swapped with the flak jacket to cross the portal. He switched with Shin in Gaiden. He swapped with a statue against Kinshiki. He swapped with his thrown sword against Momoshiki.

It's not just shifting an area of space, though; when Sasuke swapped with his sword, it was mostly stuck inside a tree. But none of the tree was swapped, and all of the sword was.

It seems to me that Sasuke could shift without an object for close range, and with an object to extend the range when he had Hagoromo's chakra. But in Boruto/Gaiden, he seems to need an object regardless of range.

He didn't swap places with an orb. Naruto has 6 before the teleport, and 6 after (one was being used by Sasuke as a platform).

The sword swapping incident against Madara was a pretty short range teleport though. As was the portal swap. Besides, the supposed range extending aspect isn't mentioned anywhere in the manga, or even in the databook for that matter.

And yeah, was wrong when I said 'entire space', but it's still a space-swapping S/T technique, not a substitution technique.

He seems to use Amenotejikara twice against Kinshiki. The first time was when he was pinned against the rock by Kinshiki and then is suddenly beside him. He never swapped with an object there (but it was an extremely close range teleport).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He didn't swap places with an orb. Naruto has 6 before the teleport, and 6 after (one was being used by Sasuke as a platform).

Naruto can call back his orbs telekinetically.

The sword swapping incident against Madara was a pretty short range teleport though.

Yeah, just because he can extend the range by using an object doesn't mean he has to.

Besides, the supposed range extending aspect isn't mentioned anywhere in the manga, or even in the databook for that matter.

Do you have a translation of the databook page?

He seems to use Amenotejikara twice against Kinshiki. The first time was when he was pinned against the rock by Kinshiki and then is suddenly beside him. He never swapped with an object there (but it was an extremely close range teleport).

...Amigo, he rolled.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Naruto can call back his orbs telekinetically.

Before or after he got surprised and was focused on helping Sasuke?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, just because he can extend the range by using an object doesn't mean he has to.

Or, you know, he can't somehow extend the range of his jutsu unless he uses an inanimate object specifically. Switching places with the flak jacket was not because the distance was too far, but for plot-related dramatic effect.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Do you have a translation of the databook page?

"A ninjutsu using the Rinnegan received from the Sage of Six Paths. With in a certain range, the jutsu user can switch himself with the location of a target object in an instant. If the user switches himself with other objects in close-range combat, the user can evade enemy attacks in an instant, and can also attack by switching himself with a kunai or other weapon."

Originally posted by NewGuy01
...Amigo, he rolled.

Look at it again, frame-by-frame. Sasuke is pinned one instant, and the next, is beside Kinshiki, with no movement in between. Given how fluid the animation is in general, they'd have shown it if he had briefly pushed back Kinshiki and rolled out of the way.

The data book confirms that he needs an object, then. Which itself is obvious, because Sasuke went through the trouble of throwing his sword and swapping with it Minato-style against Momoshiki.

Now the question is--what about those times when there was no object? It could be something stupid like "he switched with rocks", but I doubt that.

I'm still seeing nothing except a quick roll out of the way. The novel mentions no other uses of Amenotejikara other than the statue switch.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The data book confirms that he needs an object, then. Which itself is obvious, because Sasuke went through the trouble of throwing his sword and swapping with it Minato-style against Momoshiki.

The wording ('can'😉 merely confirms that the jutsu lets him swap with objects, not that he an object is required for the jutsu. In addition, the 4th databook is particularly notorious when it comes to missing info. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

To be fair, he went through all that trouble because he had to put Boruto's clone in a position where he could take out the right Rinnegan.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Now the question is--what about those times when there was no object? It could be something stupid like "he switched with rocks", but I doubt that.

Indeed. He wasn't switching with any physical object there. He himself states what his ability is, and he never mentions objects.
And again, why would he be able to teleport other people without swapping them with an object, if he can teleport himself only by swapping with an object?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'm still seeing nothing except a quick roll out of the way. The novel mentions no other uses of Amenotejikara other than the statue switch.

I thought it was a roll at first as well, but with the way Sasuke was being pinned back by Kinshiki and then just appeared beside him, and the fact that Kinshiki isn't pushed back even a little bit by Sasuke so that he gains a little leverage, I don't know how Sasuke could have rolled out of the way.
Eh, iirc, the novel and the movie have some differences. Like the fighting in the Chuunin exam arena. But fair enough.

I doubt we'll both agree on this anyway.

Also, he may have used Amenotejikara while trying to save Boruto from Momoshiki's massive fire attack during the final battle. What does it say in the novel?

And again, why would he be able to teleport other people without swapping them with an object, if he can teleport himself only by swapping with an object?

You're referring to Madara?

Eh, iirc, the novel and the movie have some differences. Like the fighting in the Chuunin exam arena. But fair enough.

I think there are some differences, but I don't recall the Chuunin exam scene being different.

Also, he may have used Amenotejikara while trying to save Boruto from Momoshiki's massive fire attack during the final battle. What does it say in the novel?

Actually, there is a line in there that could lead credence to that:

"Thanks to the Rinnegan, Sasuke was able to escape danger and grab Boruto as well, leaping up into the air."

And just when I thought VoTE 2 couldn't get anymore homoerotic.

YouTube video

The pillow talk at the end is pretty suggestive 😐

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You're referring to Madara?

Him and Kaguya. He most likely teleported Sakura & Obito as well.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I think there are some differences, but I don't recall the Chuunin exam scene being different.

I remember the fight between Momoshiki & Naruto playing out a little differently, and Sasuke & Kinshiki having an actual fight in between Sasuke rescuing Sarada and Kinshiki getting trapped by the Nara clan.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, there is a line in there that could lead credence to that:

"Thanks to the Rinnegan, Sasuke was able to escape danger and grab Boruto as well, leaping up into the air."

Cool, thanks.
If it is Amenotejikara, Sasuke doesn't seem to swap with anything there, but the scene was pretty frantic and fast-paced.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
And just when I thought VoTE 2 couldn't get anymore homoerotic.

YouTube video

The pillow talk at the end is pretty suggestive 😐

Lol. Sasuke and Naruto are soul-mates eh. Wonder what they do on valentine's day. vin

I figure Sakura and Hinata are just very understanding of the two ^^

Happened across a Naruto-related thread where people were trying to decide on the 10 biggest/worst ass-pulls in the manga and it got me thinking if this would or wouldn't start a shit-storm here.

Any takers?

EDIT: FYI, these were the ones mentioned most often (because there are always one or two people who would disagree with them, and I even disagree with a couple)

1. Naruto saving Gai from 8 Gates
2. Obito using Kamui in the afterlife and giving Kakashi the double Mangekyou.
3. Izanami GG.
4. Black Zetsu was the man behind the man.
5. The great C0 escape
6. Transmigrants
7. Obito surviving the rock slide
8. Gaara's Sand Armour

Funny how most mentioned were in Part 2. mmm

Anything involving Sasuke. 😖hifty:

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Any takers?

1. Naruto saving Gai from 8 Gates
2. Obito using Kamui in the afterlife and giving Kakashi the double Mangekyou.
3. Izanami GG.

Yeh.

4. Black Zetsu was the man behind the man.
5. The great C0 escape

Fine with these.

7. Obito surviving the rock slide

Huehue still butthurt over tobito.

8. Gaara's Sand Armour

How is this an asspull?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeh.

Fine with these.

Huehue still butthurt over tobito.

How is this an asspull?

He's probably talking about Gaara's mom is the reason for the sand armor instead of Shukaku.

That right there was so ****ing stupid and idiotic.

Originally posted by SquallX
He's probably talking about Gaara's mom is the reason for the sand armor instead of Shukaku.

That right there was so ****ing stupid and idiotic.

The mom armor was pret ty dumb. I think the Tobito reveal should be replaced by Kakashi's infinite chakra: specifically when he warped Gyuki

Originally posted by Kento
Anything involving Sasuke. 😖hifty:

Always so salty over Sasuke. 😛

Originally posted by Astner

To be fair, Sasuke's hawk didn't really affect the outcome of the fight, even if it did appear out of nowhere.

Originally posted by NewGuy01

How is this an asspull?

Apparently because Gaara already had a near impenetrable defence, but it really just seemed like the dudes who mentioned it were salty.

Originally posted by SquallX
He's probably talking about Gaara's mom is the reason for the sand armor instead of Shukaku.

That right there was so ****ing stupid and idiotic.

No, it was that second layer of sand Gaara had around him during his fight against Lee.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
The mom armor was pret ty dumb. I think the Tobito reveal should be replaced by Kakashi's infinite chakra: specifically when he warped Gyuki

Didn't he have Kurama's chakra then?
Rather, I think Kakashi being able to warp to and from Kamui's dimension without Obito's right eye might have been an asspull.

Other ones mentioned were:

Naruto stopping Orochimaru's snake in the Forest of Death.
Sasuke's Senjutsu Susanoo.
Kyuubi healing at VotE.

They were pretty lulzy, so I didn't bother to mention them the first time.

Oh, the Kisame Zetsu clone swap and eyeless Susanoo were mentioned as well.