The Official Naruto series Thread

Yea suddenly Itachi is going to try and kill his brother even though he's made no effort to at all ever, and has been protecting him for the most part and trying to make him stronger. Not to mention Itachi was still weakened. A bloodlusted, full powered Itachi could have ended the fight before Sasuke even used Kirin. Holding back, and being weakened and he still pushed Sasuke to his limit, and had him almost dead.

that is madara's story. itachi was manic and bloodlust. he tried to take sasuke's eyes. why the HELL else wud he use amaterau against sasuke?!?!?!?!? u said so yourself, if it werent for uro's kawirami no jutsu, he wud have died. itachi HADNT suspected him of using it and was surprised that he did. sasuke might also have died in the amaterasu in the forest were it not for madara. and your estimate of itachi winning the fight in so and so is pure speculation. admit it, you just hate the character.

If Orochimaru had wanted to kill Sasuke he would have. If Oro hadn't tried to take over his body he would never have won.

speculation again. uro wud definately have been a much more powrerful foe if he wasnt weakened, but then again, even itachi was pushed to his limit against sasuke and if sasuke had gon all out like he did against itachi, he wudv possibly won. do remember that sasuke HARDLY tried against uro.

Manda took most of the explosion. Sasuke took what Manda couldn't protect him from. That's why Manda died and Sasuke lived. Manda took it all while Sasuke took a portion of what Manda took. And Suigetsu summoned them right after not much later.

no, sasuke took the brunt of the intial blast BEFORE he went into mandas mouth. "the blast hit right before i went into manda's mouth". the intial blast is the most powerful. and suigetsu summoned them MUCH later, after watching thr explosion expand into the sky and then talking with karin who said"sasuke is in that area", that is AGES in terms of explosion time. you continuously forget that the majority of the energy in explosion is taken into affect in the first quarters of a second.

What does learning Rasengan or the Wind Element have to do with PIS in fights? He learned them because he's to dumb and stubborn to give up. That's why I like Naruto. His determination to do everything along with his happy-go-lucky attitude.

Haku fight won by PIS in form of Kyuubi emerging. I still think the way he beat Neji was PIS. Not beating him just the way he beat him. Neji with his Byakugan should have been able to see him. Gaara fight had the most PIS. Gaara didn't have his sand defense. And Gaara was able to stand after the fight was over, Naruto wasn't. Naruto would never have even touched a Gaara who has his sand defense going. Then there is Naruto without Kyuubi power doing better than Cursed Seal Sasuke against Shukaku Gaara when Sasuke should be the stronger one with cursed seal on. Sasuke vs Naruto fight...cool fight but Sasuke winning was PIS. Not to mention again Sasuke was fighting an opponent he was trying to kill while his opponent wasn't trying to kill him.

ok then, i say that haku having his kekai genkai to begin with is PIS. as well sasuke/kakashi/itachi/madara/pain/first/yamato/neiji/hinata. they all have kekai genkai that they were merely born with and didnt earn just like naruto has the kyuubi. infact it takes quite a lot of effort and strength and skill to use the kyuubi chakra while remaining in control. gaara was also pis because gara has the shukaku to begin with and didnt earn it. your also forgetting that naruot had huge help from gamabunta which he EARNED. really this point of view makes EVERYTHING into a plot device and is wearsome.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
that is madara's story. itachi was manic and bloodlust. he tried to take sasuke's eyes. why the HELL else wud he use amaterau against sasuke?!?!?!?!? u said so yourself, if it werent for uro's kawirami no jutsu, he wud have died. itachi HADNT suspected him of using it and was surprised that he did. sasuke might also have died in the amaterasu in the forest were it not for madara. and your estimate of itachi winning the fight in so and so is pure speculation. admit it, you just hate the character.

speculation again. uro wud definately have been a much more powrerful foe if he wasnt weakened, but then again, even itachi was pushed to his limit against sasuke and if sasuke had gon all out like he did against itachi, he wudv possibly won. do remember that sasuke HARDLY tried against uro.

no, sasuke took the brunt of the intial blast BEFORE he went into mandas mouth. "the blast hit right before i went into manda's mouth". the intial blast is the most powerful. and suigetsu summoned them MUCH later, after watching thr explosion expand into the sky and then talking with karin who said"sasuke is in that area", that is AGES in terms of explosion time. you continuously forget that the majority of the energy in explosion is taken into affect in the first quarters of a second.

it shows skill and powrr.

ok then, i say that haku having his kekai genkai to begin with is PIS. as well sasuke/kakashi/itachi/madara/pain/first/yamato/neiji/hinata. they all have kekai genkai that they were merely born with and didnt earn just like naruto has the kyuubi. infact it takes quite a lot of effort and strength and skill to use the kyuubi chakra while remaining in control. gaara was also pis because gara has the shukaku to begin with and didnt earn it. your also forgetting that naruot had huge help from gamabunta which he EARNED. really this point of view makes EVERYTHING into a plot device and is wearsome.

And what does it matter how well Sasuke faired against a weakened Itachi? Sasuke went all out and couldn't kill a weakened Itachi. And Sasuke isn't going to be doing much while he's paralyzed either like Oro had him. Orochimaru had him in the perfect place to kill but he tried to take over his body instead.

He said 'Right before I flew Manda and I recieved the hit." meaning he was already in Manda. And it was right after that he was summoned. The blast was still going on when Suigetsu took out the scroll and started to summon him. Also he wasn't with Juugo or Karin so he never talked to them. Karin also says the "Sasuke's in that area." thing when she's watching the blast. Afterwards she says "I can't sense Sasuke's chakra" and the blast is still going on. Sasuke wasn't in the blast the entire time. What does Sasuke and Manda taking the start of the blast have to do with them being summoned by Suigetsu right after the blast was over and not much later?

And him learning those have nothing to do with the fact Kyuubi can make him as strong as he needs to be in a fight.

The sharingan is a plot device just like Kyuubi, and probably the Rinnengan. Kyuubi can make Naruto as strong as he needs to be, give him more speed, and makes him all but unkillable. Huge plot device. Sharingan can do whatever it wants apparently. Whatever the occasion calls for the sharingan has the answer for. Rinnengan can just let you spam bodies that do as many different things as their are bodies. As for Byakugan it has it's limits. All it does is see through things, and give you a field of view from all around. Not really going to let you beat somebody more powerful than you are. Haku's ice mirrors, it's broken by somebody more powerful. 1st jutsu..how the heck is that PIS? He creates wood great. Not going to help him defeat a more powerful foe or make stronger. Gaara never did anything PIS. Unlike Naruto who gets power from the demon Gaara has to summon his demon out but doesn't really get any power from it. Nor does he get a healing ability or anything worthwhile except a shield that can be passed if somebody has the speed. Kimimaro...him loosing was PIS. Naruto summoned Gamabunta by use of Kyuubi chakra.

Tsyukiomi was defeated by Sasuke well trained Sharingan + CS2. No matter what way you look at it. (T) is a Genjutsu technique. And should be dispelle by a disruption in someone's Chakra flow. CS2 does extacl that boosting someones chakra temporarily. And drawing out chakra not accessible. Plus Sasuke had his sharingan which he trained vigorosy to reach the level it is at now. The only thing Itachi had over Sasuke was Experience and MS. That's basically it.

Also... still belive Orochimaru would beat Jiraiya. and most likely would have beaten Pein if he ought him. Orochimaru doesnt have as fragie of a body as Jiraiya. Either Way. You cant compare characters in naruto a>b>C style Its all about Chemistry with the fighting stylez. Also...Naruto is the biggest puddle of PIS in the whole series.

Itachi also has more power than Sasuke. Sasuke also didn't get out of it so much as reversed it didn't he? Because of being more skilled. Which is just downright wrong. Itachi is a lot more skilled specially in the use of the sharingan.

Eh I think Jiraiya and Orochimaru are about equals. I'm also sure Pein knows everything about Orochimaru. A lot more then he did about Jiraiya. Orochimaru probably knows very little about Pein seeing as how they probably never even met. Orochimaru may have his powerful jutsu but I don't think it'll save him when Pein has a body that absorbs jutsu, and probably a body for anything else Orochimaru could try. Pein may not kill Oro but I think he'd win.

Does anybody else think the Uchiha would have been easily defeated if they had tried to attack Konoha? I mean seriously how are they going to defend against the Aburame clan and their bugs, while having to deal with Hyuuga's who are probably the best h2h fighters in Konoha, and worrying about not getting trapped in Nara clan's shadow jutsu that could probably just trap nearly all of them at once? Uchiha's may have been powerful but I find it hard to believe they'd stand a chance against all the different abilities from Konoha.

Originally posted by Kento
Does anybody else think the Uchiha would have been easily defeated if they had tried to attack Konoha? I mean seriously how are they going to defend against the Aburame clan and their bugs, while having to deal with Hyuuga's who are probably the best h2h fighters in Konoha, and worrying about not getting trapped in Nara clan's shadow jutsu that could probably just trap nearly all of them at once? Uchiha's may have been powerful but I find it hard to believe they'd stand a chance against all the different abilities from Konoha.

I agree. The Uchiha fair very well against learned skills...but they can't really use those eyes against Kekkei Genkais.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree. The Uchiha fair very well against learned skills...but they can't really use those eyes against Kekkei Genkais.

first off, tsukiyomi doesnt work on the chakra circulatory system, it works directly on the soul. and most of the shaaringan based genjutsu dont seem to have much to do with the chakra system as evidenced byt he fact that naruto cudnt save himself with stopping his chakra flow. also, every1 admits that sasuke has FROM THE BEGINNING had greater potential than itachi. urochimaru himself admitted{being one of the 4 great genius ninjas to come out of konoha , a once in a decade genius. others are yondaime/itachi/kakahi's father} that he was nothing compared to sasuke at that age. also remember that itachi was around the same age as sasuke is now when he destroyed the clan so it makes sense that sasuke has surpassed him. also, WHICH of sasuke's feats from destroying ninjas large enough to cover the horizon or defeating hundreds of cursed mark 2 seal users with no sweat or stopping jugo which only kimimary could do or devestating the combined attack of naruto/sakura/yamamoto/sai or defeating diedara or in the end, defeating itachi is not WORTHY to put him on that level. his shaaringan has grown immensely as evidenced by the fact that he did the same thing that itachi did to urochimaru and his body takeover jutsu or DESTROYED the entire dimension in which urochimaru did the soul transfer jutsu or mind controlled manda etc etc etc etc, makes you beleive he is a PIS character. if you wann rationalise a point of view in comics/manga, ull always find points in one direction but that applies to ALL characters in the manga, not just sasuke.

personally, i think urochimaru might know more about the whole state of the uchiha affairs etc than almost any1 else other thasn perhaps madara. i dont htink we have seen the last of him and it makes sense as to why he wud so insanely pursue uchiha's abilities. i think he may actually be the last and most manipulative villian of all. hes definately the coolest.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
first off, tsukiyomi doesnt work on the chakra circulatory system, it works directly on the soul. and most of the shaaringan based genjutsu dont seem to have much to do with the chakra system as evidenced byt he fact that naruto cudnt save himself with stopping his chakra flow. also, every1 admits that sasuke has FROM THE BEGINNING had greater potential than itachi. urochimaru himself admitted{being one of the 4 great genius ninjas to come out of konoha , a once in a decade genius. others are yondaime/itachi/kakahi's father} that he was nothing compared to sasuke at that age. also remember that itachi was around the same age as sasuke is now when he destroyed the clan so it makes sense that sasuke has surpassed him. also, WHICH of sasuke's feats from destroying ninjas large enough to cover the horizon or defeating hundreds of cursed mark 2 seal users with no sweat or stopping jugo which only kimimary could do or devestating the combined attack of naruto/sakura/yamamoto/sai or defeating diedara or in the end, defeating itachi is not WORTHY to put him on that level. his shaaringan has grown immensely as evidenced by the fact that he did the same thing that itachi did to urochimaru and his body takeover jutsu or DESTROYED the entire dimension in which urochimaru did the soul transfer jutsu or mind controlled manda etc etc etc etc, makes you beleive he is a PIS character. if you wann rationalise a point of view in comics/manga, ull always find points in one direction but that applies to ALL characters in the manga, not just sasuke.

personally, i think urochimaru might know more about the whole state of the uchiha affairs etc than almost any1 else other thasn perhaps madara. i dont htink we have seen the last of him and it makes sense as to why he wud so insanely pursue uchiha's abilities. i think he may actually be the last and most manipulative villian of all. hes definately the coolest.

Great Sasuke beats a bunch of low ranking ninja and he suppose to be special? Because a person has the cursed seal doesn't make them powerful either. The only one of the sound 5 that was even that powerful was Kimimaro, and all of them had cursed seals. The sound 5 were the most powerful out of the cursed seal users with the exception of Sasuke and probably Juugo as they were picked by Orochimaru. Sakura did absolutely nothing against Sasuke except get in the way and have to be protected by Yamato, Yamato did one small attack that wasn't powerful, Sai stopped Sasuke from attacking Naruto, and Naruto only grabbed Sasuke's arm after Sasuke was already next to him. They didn't even really try before Sasuke left. Deidara...Deidara was beaten faster, and easier by Itachi who didn't even try. As for Itachi..I'll say it again beating a weakened Itachi, and barely at that, means nothing. Itachi's strongest jutsu > Sasuke's strongest jutsu also. The fact that the Sharingan does whatever he wants and Sasuke always fights people who have been weakened or not wanting to kill him while he is trying to kill them and at full strength makes Sasuke PIS character. The only person he fought who was at full power was Deidara worth mentioning, and that was an actual fight and he barely survived that even with his advantage of being able to counter Deidara's techniques, and Deidara isn't close to being as powerful as Itachi.

^rationalisations. you are downplaying all his triumphs and exagerating his shortcomings. diedara never used anything above c-1/c-2 against itachi. he also hadnt developed his anti sharingan eye thing then. how much you wanna bet that itachi might have only barely made it out of there alive if diedara had straight awa used c-4{or not at all since itachi doesnt have electricity as far as i can tell} or just used his ultimate suicidal jutsu. the only thing that might have saved him was susano, and just sumthing to remember, using susano KILLED itachi so its a nigh suicidal jutsu in itself. everything will be PIS to a certain EXTENT, since it challenges preconceptions and pushes the envelope into a teritory deemed impossible before it, doesnt mean you start saying that everything is a plot device.

as far as stopping genjutsu, even kurenai, who is a genjutsu specialist cudnt stop itachi's NORMAL genjutus. pluis the fact that this was a 30% weak itachi CLONE who cudnt even use mangekyo and the fact that he cast the genjutsu simply by pointing while naruto was intentionally not even looking. shaaringan gejutsu and specially tsukiyomi work directly on the soul and not thechakra circulatory system. that is the point i was making. it said so in the explaation of itachi. and it is seen by the ill affects it has on the person;s health and also how sasuk cud acces the inner sanctum of the kyuubi in naruto's soul and how he and itachi cud destroy the very dimension in which urochimaru's soul did the soul transfer jutsu.

^yup, this is all leading to the battle between the great genius vs the great screw-up.

not many ninja in the series have the list of accomplishments as sasuke has, he should be at least considered jonin level since he has his own squad already.

and if suigetsu can at least hang with a 100% kisame in their upcoming fight, it is safe to say that sasuke( suigetsu's squad leader) is a match for 100% itachi.

im still not saying he is more powerful all out than itachi, im just saying that he is definately compareable in his own way. and i was bloody surprised that any1 at ALL cud block kirin, seemed like an awesome jutsu.

Susanoo didnt kill Itachi. Itachi was sick and overused his chakra killing himself. Itachi said he already used Susanoo once before.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^rationalisations. you are downplaying all his triumphs and exagerating his shortcomings. diedara never used anything above c-1/c-2 against itachi. he also hadnt developed his anti sharingan eye thing then. how much you wanna bet that itachi might have only barely made it out of there alive if diedara had straight awa used c-4{or not at all since itachi doesnt have electricity as far as i can tell} or just used his ultimate suicidal jutsu. the only thing that might have saved him was susano, and just sumthing to remember, using susano KILLED itachi so its a nigh suicidal jutsu in itself. everything will be PIS to a certain EXTENT, since it challenges preconceptions and pushes the envelope into a teritory deemed impossible before it, doesnt mean you start saying that everything is a plot device.

as far as stopping genjutsu, even kurenai, who is a genjutsu specialist cudnt stop itachi's NORMAL genjutus. pluis the fact that this was a 30% weak itachi CLONE who cudnt even use mangekyo and the fact that he cast the genjutsu simply by pointing while naruto was intentionally not even looking. shaaringan gejutsu and specially tsukiyomi work directly on the soul and not thechakra circulatory system. that is the point i was making. it said so in the explaation of itachi. and it is seen by the ill affects it has on the person;s health and also how sasuk cud acces the inner sanctum of the kyuubi in naruto's soul and how he and itachi cud destroy the very dimension in which urochimaru's soul did the soul transfer jutsu.

@psycho_gundam - Both Sasuke and Naruto are Jonin level in power. If Naruto is more powerful than Kakashi without Kyuubi then Sasuke is for sure. And just because Sasuke has is leading a squad doesn't mean anything. Shikamaru was leader of a team like what twice and he was probably the weakest on the team the first time out. Also who knows if Suigetsu was a match for Kisame at all. Just because Suigetsu is going to fight him doesn't mean they'd be equals in power. Also if Itachi was weakened Kisame may have been weakened also. Assuming they ever show the fight or at least what happened to either of them.

but the difference between the three is;

-shikamaru has the most skill but the lowest chakra reserve
-naruto has the most raw power but the lowest skill/intelligence
-sasuke on the otherhand has a lot of chakra, not close to the amount naruto possesses but a good amount. and sasuke possesses great skill and battle intelligence, the best of both worlds.

he has what shikamaru and naruto lack respectively and he is also a weapons master and has a kekki genki. not many ninja like him come along frequently.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
but the difference between the three is;

-shikamaru has the most skill but the lowest chakra reserve
-naruto has the most raw power but the lowest skill/intelligence
-sasuke on the otherhand has a lot of chakra, not close to the amount naruto possesses but a good amount. and sasuke possesses great skill and battle intelligence, the best of both worlds.

he has what shikamaru and naruto lack respectively and he is also a weapons master and has a kekki genki. not many ninja like him come along frequently.

Hmm just imagine if Naruto, Sasuke, and Shikamaru were to be formed into one person. The reserves of chakra Naruto possesses, Shikmaru's ability to come up with hundreds of plans and counters on the fly, and Sasuke's skill.

then naruto would go the dbz route and imo that should be avoided at all costs. but it would be cool if they were on the same team though, i personally would add sakura to the team cause a healer/bruiser is handy.

shikamaru's elaborate plans which all lead to him catching his opponent in the shadow bind, then that opponent either gets shredded/electrocuted by sasuke or ground to powder by naruto's resengan OR destroyed by sakura's fist.

I don't think it would be DBZish at all since Naruto's power even at 4-tails really isn't even close. The person would just be one heck of a guy to beat in the Narutoverse though. Shikamaru's brains with any Jonin level chakra would probably be a handful.

Hmm Shikamaru leading Team 7. Assuming Naruto and Sasuke would listen to him he could probably use the others strengths to cover the weaknesses. Though really I'd rather have Rock Lee or Neji if I was going for a taijutsu fighter instead of Sakura. Sakura may be a good healer but she's not exceptionally skilled at anything else besides controlling her chakra. Of course I think a good team for Shikamaru to control would be Shino, Sasuke, and Naruto. Naruto would be the taijutsu, Sasuke would be the ninjutsu, and Shino would be the long range. And Shino isn't really a slouch in the strategy department either. Shikamaru could probably take advantage of that also.

hey, sakura (shippuden) is a pretty good taijutsu practitioner, you have to see the sasori fight. i can link you the whole thing on youtube sans filler.

nevermind, i will do it anyways:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byQh1fnMvIw&feature=PlayList&p=CD2AFB092E7294B7&index=73
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvvFXdyotBE&feature=PlayList&p=CD2AFB092E7294B7&index=74
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqM2m5lFRTE&feature=PlayList&p=CD2AFB092E7294B7&index=75
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMl5o1HdT0g&feature=PlayList&p=CD2AFB092E7294B7&index=76
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWeiMpe1AjQ&feature=PlayList&p=CD2AFB092E7294B7&index=77
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XUGqrH1uh0&feature=PlayList&p=CD2AFB092E7294B7&index=78

pay attention to this last part

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCQRAOJ_Wi0&feature=PlayList&p=CD2AFB092E7294B7&index=79
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIWYZ7sun5A&feature=PlayList&p=CD2AFB092E7294B7&index=80

sakura busted up a lot of puppets without letting them cut her and her mega strength was the element that tipped the scales against sasori.

I wonder if Sasuke is going back to Konoha...

Originally posted by Magee
I wonder if Sasuke is going back to Konoha...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
hey, sakura (shippuden) is a pretty good taijutsu practitioner, you have to see the sasori fight. i can link you the whole thing on youtube sans filler.

pay attention to this last part

sakura busted up a lot of puppets without letting them cut her and her mega strength was the element that tipped the scales against sasori.