The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by chithappens
Pfft anyway. It's bullshit.

The summon comes from somewhere but the user doesn't go anywhere. I don't get your point

@Psycho gundam - Jiraiya went to where the frogs live. And even if what you said is true...It makes it even easier to see how Sasuke accomplished what he did. He went whereever it is Manda disappears to, and then Suigetsu summoned them. Sasuke didn't do it himself. Why else would Suigetsu need to summon Manda if Sasuke could use a space-time jutsu?

Sigh, if I didn't have dial up I would just show you links to support what I'm saying instead of just spewing mess.

Just post the links and we can go through them. I don't even know where to start but I'm not about to take 20 minutes on this connection just to prove myself

Well then we both have problems cause I can't post anything because I can't copy and past links on my Wii. They said Sasuke flew into another dimension or something like that, and Karin couldn't sense him anymore. But he needed Suigetsu to summon Manda or else he couldn't get back. If he could do it himself why did he need to put Manda in a genjutsu, and then be summoned? Why not just do it himself which would be faster.

Originally posted by Kento
How many of the users have been inside the bodies of the summons when they leave?

@Psycho gundam - Jiraiya went to where the frogs live.

And even if what you said is true...It makes it even easier to see how Sasuke accomplished what he did. He went whereever it is Manda disappears to, and then Suigetsu summoned them. Sasuke didn't do it himself. Why else would Suigetsu need to summon Manda if Sasuke could use a space-time jutsu?

manda and all other summons appear before the summoner, like naruto's bunshins. they don't have actual space/time jutsus but rather a portal of sorts is made when they are summoned.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
sasuke inherited the ability to summon manda without the scroll from orochimaru. before the blast went off he hypnotized manda into cooperating and hid in his mouth/belly as the blast went off. upon great damage, manda/sasuke transported back to the dimension of the summons only to be re-summoned by suigetsu with the actual manda/snake summoning scroll.

manda and all other summons appear before the summoner, like naruto's bunshins. they don't have actual space/time jutsus but rather a portal of sorts is made when they are summoned.

Something like this is actually explained by Sasuke when Suigetsu summons him back. I understand the process but I'm sick of this Sasuke praise by Kishi.

Naruto is nowhere near this level. He can't even think to use Kage Bushin for his Shrinken jutsu so he doesn't hurt himself. He's not particularly fast.

Naruto has three jutsu (wind rasengan, regular rasengan, kage bushin), a lot of charka. That's it...

nah man, current sasuke is uber fast.

and his chidori variations are genius, he can't really be touched without his attacker suffering electrocution.

coupled together, he doesn't need bunshins as they only drain chakara,
he is fast enough to be all over whoever he is fighting in the blink of an eye.

notice how far sasuke was from the squad^

^ an instant later

All I was trying to get at is that Sasuke didn't use a spacial warp jutsu himself but needed Manda.

Naruto may not be that skilled but his chakra, and his healing are why he's able to fight and win. And he's got one other version of the Rasengan that he used on the Itachi clone. And he can summon Gamabunta. Naruto is also fast..well when he's got the tails anyway but that's pretty much part of Naruto. Without Kyuubi he's a third-rate ninja but he has Kyuubi which evens the odds greatly because he's faster than most people could really react to, and the chakra surrounding moves on it's own also. Why does it matter how many jutsu he has though? Not like many people use more than a couple anyways even if they have others..like Kakashi.

Originally posted by chithappens

Naruto is nowhere near this level. He can't even think to use Kage Bushin for his Shrinken jutsu so he doesn't hurt himself. He's not particularly fast.

You got pronouns mixed up. I was saying Naruto is not fast

Originally posted by Kento
All I was trying to get at is that Sasuke didn't use a spacial warp jutsu himself but needed Manda.

Naruto may not be that skilled but his chakra, and his healing are why he's able to fight and win. And he's got one other version of the Rasengan that he used on the Itachi clone. And he can summon Gamabunta. Naruto is also fast..well when he's got the tails anyway but that's pretty much part of Naruto. Without Kyuubi he's a third-rate ninja but he has Kyuubi which evens the odds greatly because he's faster than most people could really react to, and the chakra surrounding moves on it's own also. Why does it matter how many jutsu he has though? Not like many people use more than a couple anyways even if they have others..like Kakashi.

Naruto has ONE elemental jutsu and it's soooooooo obvious. It hurts like hell but he has to actually hit someone with it. It would be hard to hit a genin (if they had any speed) with that jutsu. Who the hell would even let him get close? I don't need to see the power first, that thing is huge. Naruto is a mid B-class ninja without Kyubi. With it, he's a low A.

That's it.

*And to make this clear, the only reason Jiraya got messed up so bad was because he was trying not to harm Naruto. If had to kill him, it would not have been super easy or nothing, but it's likely he wouldn't have gotten that patch on his chest.

Originally posted by chithappens
Naruto has ONE elemental jutsu and it's soooooooo obvious. It hurts like hell but he has to actually hit someone with it. It would be hard to hit a genin (if they had any speed) with that jutsu. Who the hell would even let him get close? I don't need to see the power first, that thing is huge. Naruto is a mid B-class ninja without Kyubi. With it, he's a low A.

That's it.

*And to make this clear, the only reason Jiraya got messed up so bad was because he was trying not to harm Naruto. If had to kill him, it would not have been super easy or nothing, but it's likely he wouldn't have gotten that patch on his chest.

Originally posted by chithappens
You got pronouns mixed up. I was saying Naruto is not fast

All of Naruto's jutsu are close range. ALL OF THEM. Not one projectile jutsu, and he is not fast.

All of his jutsu are also some of the strongest jutsu. Rasengan was already one of the top jutsu and he made two even stronger ones from it, and Shadow Clone is a high level jutsu. And yea he is fast as long as he uses Kyuubi.

You don't really need speed when you can create 100 copies of your self in an instant.

Well... as we've seen from the Kmmimaro fight, and the Sawsgay fight, that's not really true..

Face it: Naruto is weak. Any ninja considered semi-dangerous should mop the floor with Naruto.

Hell, Tenten could beat Naruto if he doesn't use Kyuubi because he can't get close.

^thats not true at all. naruto is very strong, just not very SKILLED.

Originally posted by chithappens
Face it: Naruto is weak. Any ninja considered semi-dangerous should mop the floor with Naruto.

Hell, Tenten could beat Naruto if he doesn't use Kyuubi because he can't get close.

Originally posted by Kento
TenTen? What would spamming weapons really do to Naruto when anything they do he can heal from. Or the fact that he's very good at fooling his opponents about which of the hundreds of him is actually him. And Kyuubi is part of Naruto just like the Sharingan is part of Itachi, Sasuke, and Kakashi. Gai's a close range fighter but that doesn't make him any less dangerous. Same with Lee, and most Hyuuga.

I said beat, as in defeat, not kill Naruto. Kyubi is a part of Naruto, but it's not as if going Kyubi includes any jutsu. We have seen only one situation where a ninja stayed in a controlled state (not including Sasuke using full curse seal because that's a beast battle not a ninja battle) was Orochimaru. As a ninja, Naruto is very average.

You can't just judge a ninja on brute strength. I'm not saying he needs to be a master tactician, but he does not even have the skill set to do more than spam clones and hope a rasengan hits. Unless someone is underestimating Naruto, they can't lose. The only way to **** up is say, "Sasuke" and then he gets emotional and turns into a four-tail.

Gai is a close-range fighter who packs a massive punch and he is one of the fastest ninja in the manga. Each of his attacks utilize charka through taijutsu, but Gai sets up opponents. When he fought that Kisame clone, he didn't just run blindly each time towards Kisame. He specializes in taijutsu so he is much more equipped to deal with that.

Naruto LITERALLY just runs at people full speed. He makes a thousand clones against Kimiraro (bone guy, forget how to spell) and none of the cones even sweep the guy! He's on his feet the entire time! I can't think of any ninja that could make even 20 clones and at least put him in an odd position that gets a lick in.

Think about it: beyond that one time when Garra was in that half-way transformed mode (and he held Sakura down) when is a time that Naruto used the massive clone jutsu and even hit his opponent (that massive whirlwind clone tech was filler in the anime) ?

* Oh please don't name Kakazu. That was just stupid. That was a mass underestimation of Naruto. Seriously, who could that have hit besides him? Sigh, anyway...

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Well... as we've seen from the Kmmimaro fight, and the Sawsgay fight, that's not really true..

Originally posted by Magee
Not the way Naruto uses them just hopeing for the best. It is his speed. If you are faster than your opponent you have the best chance of winning but if it is 100 vs 1 then guess who has the best chance. Shadow clones will come in to play at some point, a strategic move involving all of them that will be near impossible to defend and not just spamming and praying one hits.

Your strategy is damn near useless for any character in the manga. Anyone with good taijutsu does not have the charka reserves that Naruto has. Charka is always split up between clones so that means speed and power are also sacrificed. Naruto has the charka but lacks the skill, so you are back at square one.

That's why you rarely see any ninja use Kage Bushin.