Gothmog

hehe to make things clear about gothmog

i started a thread about ROTK EE, with a text from a spanish web that i translated, and there they call gothmog to the head orc in pellenor fields battle (the one who talks to the witch king when he says he's taking care of the wizard)

i think gothmog is one of the head orcs in minas morgul, but i don't remember if it's the same orc that the one in pellenor fields battle, and i do not remember his race so i can't conclude anything 🙁

ALSO there is another gothmog: the lord of the balrogs (the one that killed feanor if i remember correclty)

ok, i may be wrong so i need your help to make things clear

gothmog was lord of the balrogs go to encyclopedia of arda and it tells you about balrog and orc gothmog

The original Gothmog was the Son of Melkor;
But one of the lieutenants of Sauron was named after him

And in the film its this white-skinned guy (one of the few that speak), leader of the orcs; Also this Nazgûl-thingy man... how was he described?

Gothmog in the movies was the Orc General that was ordering everyone around.

Movie gothmog was the lieutenant of morgul im pretty sure. he was the white one that stabs the ranger in the chest in osgilianth (damrod?)

The ranger was called Madril 😉
Damrod was darkhaired, I think

oooo yeah thats right

was gothmog from Murgul? In the movie they all appearfrom the boats into Osgiliath but i may be mistaking as they could of "boated" from Minas Morgul?

They cant have come from Minas Morgul by boat because there is not water wide enough on that way 😉 as its in the mountains 😄

They set off from the borders of Anduin not too far from Osgiliath.
Im sure they came from Morgul as its the nearest way for Mordor-Orcs, Minas Morgul being a former fortress of Gondor, counterpart to Minas Tirith.

Originally posted by Exa
The original Gothmog was the Son of Melkor;
But one of the lieutenants of Sauron was named after him

yep exa you're completely right (as always!!! 🙂), i searched in the glossary from my .doc version of the silmarillion, and it said that, plus i searched in the document and i found interesting things such as

now it's a spoiler ahead (i advice no to read it if you haven't read the silmarillion yet)

//
gothmog (lord of the balrogs) not only murdered feanor as i remembered, but also murdered gondolin and (there is more!, this i didn't remember at all 😖) ecthelion and gothmog killed each other
//

wooow i'm so reading the silmarillion again!! too bad now i only have the .doc version, hope my eyes resist!!

go an print It... unless you are out of paper and tint 😄... its too unconfortable to read it from the pc 😖

i better ask for my own book back 😉
i gave it to a friend after i read it, when i was in highschool (like 5 o 6 years ago)...
may be i'll print it 😛

Originally posted by Firithlotwen

gothmog (lord of the balrogs) not only murdered feanor as i remembered, but also murdered gondolin and (there is more!, this i didn't remember at all 😖) ecthelion and gothmog killed each other

Ecthellion stabed balrog Gothmog with his spiked helm, pushing him into a fountain falling to his death, which dragged Echthellion down who drowned because of the weight of his armor.

but getting back to the debate...

Encyclopedia of ARDA entry:
Gothmog
(Lieutenant of Morgul)
Lieutenant to the Lord of the Nazgûl at the Battle of the Pelennor - he took command of the forces of Minas Morgul after the loss of his lord
[no mention of orcs there...]

i posted this elsewhere but it belongs here:

Some points of research…

1.“The source was soon revealed to be GOTHMOG, Sixth of Nine, Ringwraith and servant of Mordor... one of the terrible Nazgul”
http://harad.elendor.net/umbarnews/winter00-01.php
(some roleplaying site)

2.movie credit: Lawrence Makoare as Witch King/Gothmog
(this point takes the argument either way but I thought “what the hell”)

3.and while I’m at it the names, such as Murazor, Dwar, etc.. are all names from a trading card game. The only name given is Khamul, and that’s the name of the ringwraith 2nd in command (the one I say is known as gothmog).

4."Gothmog Lord of the Balrogs, high captain of Angband, etc etc..(The name was born in the thrid age by the lieutenant of Minas Morgul; The Return of the King V.6)

5.‘the Complete Guide to Middle Earth’ says gothmog is a ringwraith

as for me personally I just accepted it for some reason while reading the books. I can’t remember what made me so confident in the fact, but now that I have been put on the spot, I am unable to locate where it is written in stone that gothmog is infact a ringwraith, there is a lot of innuendo but there is NOTHING that suggests he is an orc, although it seems to widely believed. However more are of the belief that he is a Nazgul.

Things in my mind that point to it;

1.Most things named ‘morgul’ are related specifically to the nazgul. The morgul blade that infected Frodo, the Morgul wound suffered by Boromir I (steward of Gondor, father of Cirion) etc.

2.The Hierarchy of Mordor, Sauron (lord), Mouth of Sauron (Captain), The Witchking of Angmar (Lieutenant).
Witchking was lt. To Sauron but lord of Minas Morgul and Khamul was lt. of the nazgul.

3.Orcs were chaotic beings (“a ruined and terrible race”) who never trusted charge of anything… they were foot soldiers, brutish violent thugs. besides which the books NEVER call him an orc!!!

That’s all I be bothered typing for now, I’ll continue this age old argument later…

oh yeah, and it took more than one balrog to kill feanor...
it pretty much took all of them.
(that's why feanors my favorite elf)

i'm more confused now than before....

so gothmog we all agree it's the lord of the balrogs

but it's also a ringwraith because of some of the books

and in the movie it's an orc

????????????

is this correct?????

well put firith,,,,, some where it talked aobut him and said he was the "lieutenant of morgul" my guess is that he attacked osgilianth first and was still there when they were all on boats.

in the film credits, there is listed: orc lieutenant.

The same person played the witch king and gothmog.

Witchking and Gothmog is Lawrence Makoare

"Orc lieutenant 1" is played by Joel Tobeck

ALL the balrogs no...several,,,all the balrogs would destroy him in an instant