Originally posted by lord xyz
but evolution is a science and not a belief. Even if the schools will be debating evolution, if they debate the facts properly, everyone'll see that evolution is a better 'theory' than creationism.
Well, that should be up to the individual to decide. I don't see the problem in debating a science and a belief.
Believing such horribly flawed though logical theory such as evolution requires in my eyes more faith than believing in creationism. Creationism is requires belief only in a creator while evolution requires belief in spontaneous generation, a occurence that man has never been able to reproduce through many attempts. Through biological sciences it is easily understood that evolution is a logical explanation, however, physics would show that design and order of tremendous complexity exists in the atom. The complex structure of the atom is unlikely to have spontaneously formed through chance to all the atoms on earth at the same time, forming only about 90 elements. Since evolution is so theoretical and flawed, should it not be removed from high schools and taught only in universities where theories are more often discussed and only returned to high schools once many more gaps are filled.
Believing such horribly flawed though logical theory such as evolution requires in my eyes more faith than believing in creationism.
Horribly Flawed? In what ways?
I think the Bible and Quran are horribly flawed.
Again FAITH...the beleif in something that you do not fully know to be true..otherwise if you did know it to be 100% true, it wouldnt be Faith...it would be KNOWLEDGE
Creationism is requires belief only in a creator
Creationism requires a BLIND acceptance of the creator without questioning anything about it.
...while evolution requires belief in spontaneous generation, a occurence that man has never been able to reproduce through many attempts.
Spontaneous generation? No...a generation which evolved from the one before it.
Evolution does not claim to know how life came to be. Evolution claims to know how life has changed through time into what it is now.
Through biological sciences it is easily understood that evolution is a logical explanation, however, physics would show that design and order of tremendous complexity exists in the atom.
And how does this contradict Evolution ?
The complex structure of the atom is unlikely to have spontaneously formed through chance to all the atoms on earth at the same time, forming only about 90 elements.
Chance? We dont know this.
If the Atoms formed another way, this world would be another way
Yes, it is clear and self evident that the order of an Atom and its formations may be designed based on what we know.
However, study Quantam Physics, a DEEPER look into normal Physics, and you will see that there is INDEED a randomness as well as an order in everything.
Since evolution is so theoretical and flawed, should it not be removed from high schools and taught only in universities where theories are more often discussed and only returned to high schools once many more gaps are filled.
It is only Flawed because we need to find more information on the subject...we need to find more facts to support what we already accepted as facts. That is the point to science my freind, and I am confident that eventually the Theory will become undeniable.
EVERYTHING should be taught in schools....Evolution AND creationism. Students should be exposed TO ALL OPTIONS, not just one or two. Students should be taught to challenge themselves and everything they learn, become cooperative with thier studies.
Originally posted by PrincessMaryso you want to ask people that both religion and science can be true, but they have to decide??? That's not how it's done. We don't say "hey, this looks like a good theory, lets all follow this one." that's not how science is done. It's about knowing the facts and understanding the known world. That's what evolution's about. Creationism is a collection of myths and lies that people BELIEVE to be true, and they also BELIEVE it should be forced upon minors. Which, IMO is wrong. Besides, evolution is far too complex to be summed up as easy as creationism. The explaning of cells and genes, is already too complicated for anyone without a high school diploma.
Well, that should be up to the individual to decide. I don't see the problem in debating a science and a belief.
There are BIG problems when debating science with religion because the science is obviously right. Arrogance, gets in its way. 😉
Originally posted by Lord Urizenyou forgot about the garden, the flood, and deniance of the laws of physics.
[B]Creationism is requires belief only in a creatorCreationism requires a BLIND acceptance of the creator without questioning anything about it.[/B]
Originally posted by Lord Urizen??? Both of you have made a retarded point here. That's all I'm going to say.
[B]...while evolution requires belief in spontaneous generation, a occurence that man has never been able to reproduce through many attempts.Spontaneous generation? No...a generation which evolved from the one before it.
Evolution does not claim to know how life came to be. Evolution claims to know how life has changed through time into what it is now.
[/B]
Originally posted by Lord UrizenI second that Urizen.
[B]Through biological sciences it is easily understood that evolution is a logical explanation, however, physics would show that design and order of tremendous complexity exists in the atom.And how does this contradict Evolution ?
[/B]
Originally posted by Lord Urizenagain, I agree.
[B]The complex structure of the atom is unlikely to have spontaneously formed through chance to all the atoms on earth at the same time, forming only about 90 elements.Chance? We dont know this.
If the Atoms formed another way, this world would be another way
Yes, it is clear and self evident that the order of an Atom and its formations may be designed based on what we know.
However, study Quantam Physics, a DEEPER look into normal Physics, and you will see that there is INDEED a randomness as well as an order in everything.
[/B]
Originally posted by Lord UrizenI disagree. Evolution only doesn't make sense, to those who are fundamental and are unknoledgable and ignorant. Creationism SHOULDN'T BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS. It is wrong, crap and useless. Religion is not a science. It is stupid, and crap, and that is why it isn't in science classes. It is WRONG 100% of the time.
[B]Since evolution is so theoretical and flawed, should it not be removed from high schools and taught only in universities where theories are more often discussed and only returned to high schools once many more gaps are filled.It is only Flawed because we need to find more information on the subject...we need to find more facts to support what we already accepted as facts. That is the point to science my freind, and I am confident that eventually the Theory will become undeniable.
EVERYTHING should be taught in schools....Evolution AND creationism. Students should be exposed TO ALL OPTIONS, not just one or two. Students should be taught to challenge themselves and everything they learn, become cooperative with thier studies. [/B]
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
EVERYTHING should be taught in schools....Evolution AND creationism. Students should be exposed TO ALL OPTIONS, not just one or two. Students should be taught to challenge themselves and everything they learn, become cooperative with thier studies.
I hate to play the intolerant bigot here, but mythology is not even an option, because it's not science. Religion should be taught in social studies class, not science class. Evolution is the ONLY scientific theory offering an explanation of how we got here. If we came up with a better explanation one day, that's what we would teach in biology class, but the fact is that evolution is the only current system that has been tested extensively enough to have any real merit.
Frankly, I don't even know why this is a debate—there are shitloads of principles in biology that are very widely accepted (even by Christians, since they don't "directly" contradict the Bible) and depend entirely on the reality of evolution.
That said, I am pretty proud of my little thread, being more than two years old and all. 🙂
Originally posted by Blue nocturne
I think he's responding to the fact spontaneous generation of new traits haven't been proven, he specified it in his post.
He said that, but he's completely wrong, because it's entirely proven. It's called mutation, and it happens all the time. It's basically just a copying error in the DNA that fails more often than not, but leads to a new trait when it doesn't just kill the organism. How could we have evolved from single-celled organisms by this process? Simple: four billion years is a really long time.
Let me also say, for the last damn time, that there is no such thing as scientific "fact". That's not to say science doesn't work, just that the only field of science in which anything can be truly proven is pure mathematics. People complain that evolution is just a theory, when in fact ALL science is just theory. Science is really nothing more mystical than applied logic. Scientists don't make shit up to appease the Great Satan, they just look at the facts and try to put them together without any embellishment in the way that makes the most sense. The day somebody's made up god replaces human reasoning will be the day we resign ourselves to an existence fraught with fear and hatred at the unknown. We've come this far; for the love of god (no pun intended), don't undo all the good science has done us.
Any thing relating to religion, creationism and what not should be kept in Religous education... Our world is ruled by religous freaks accept it and move on. There weak will needs them to beleive in a higher power, in life after death its just pathetic. I don't care about it just keep it away from me but when they try and do shit like teach creationism in science class its beyond ****ed in the head. Any single thing you can think of relating to religion should by all means be kept out of a science class room.
I personally think that classical view of creationism is both intellectually damning and stubbornly ignorant.
I personally believe that God created the universe and us through evolution. He created the laws of physics in our reality, why would he not conform to them?
Why wouldn't a creationist God who had no concept of time, because everything was one eternal now with his perceived consciousness, create everything gradually and elegantly through a series of probability systems? If I was a God, I would thoroughly enjoy creating all sorts of organisms in my reality/universe.
Life is elegantly balanced on the planet through extremely complicated bio-systems. I love it. Why would I mock God by giving him short sited powers such as spontaneous creationism? Seems more elegant and righteous that he would create this plane gradually and seamlessly instead of crudely and abruptly creating it.
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Elvolution is false.The fact is creation.Who you believe God or a bunch of human beings.If you guys read the bible you can see what makes sence.
The idea for teaching that in school as a fact is very distrubing.Why don't we stop all religon all together?jm
With a post like that, you are making a good case to "stop all religion altogether". Oops, my bad you spelled it "all together".
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Elvolution is false.The fact is creation.Who you believe God or a bunch of human beings.If you guys read the bible you can see what makes sence.
The idea for teaching that in school as a fact is very distrubing.Why don't we stop all religon all together?jm
I hope this is sarcasm.
Originally posted by Magee
Any thing relating to religion, creationism and what not should be kept in Religous education... Our world is ruled by religous freaks accept it and move on. There weak will needs them to beleive in a higher power, in life after death its just pathetic. I don't care about it just keep it away from me but when they try and do shit like teach creationism in science class its beyond ****ed in the head. Any single thing you can think of relating to religion should by all means be kept out of a science class room.
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Elvolution is false.The fact is creation.Who you believe God or a bunch of human beings.If you guys read the bible you can see what makes sence.
The idea for teaching that in school as a fact is very distrubing.Why don't we stop all religon all together?jm
Human Beings created God, so the Bible is a human creation as well.