Then if you saw that as winning, a. you would never win and b. you have a serious Dark Side issue. You cannot stay on the Light Side and do everything you want. By its very nature it involves restriction and by extension inevitable failure at times. As soon as you start defining your objective as getting everything you want, you are on the Dark path.
In fact, Andro is coming out of this story in a worse state than Gallagher due to this issue, and his misunderstanding of the issues have led him to waste a ton of time trying to lecture Gallagher about a decision that had already been made, thus blowing his opportunity to show the same maturity of mind that Gallagher eventually did.
I will soon enough.
And no they couldn't. Aside from anything else, they didn't even know that stopping it was an issue. So if we put this more into the lens of stopping Sienar- whatever it was he wanted... then, again, no. Killing him first was the only way. Any Dark Sider could have done it.
It wasn't about a super-weapon or scheme to be foiled. Sienar's control of the Church game him the ability to influence the Senate. There was no way the Jedi could remove that moral authority because Sienar had very specifically not done anything illegal that he could actually be got for (he literally had assaulted Andro and Gallagehr on Spiridos, but as a major public figure you would need independent evidence to prove this had happened). There was simply no way for the Jedi to contend with that.
Other than the lesson of 'there are some things you simply cannot do anything about because, frankly, shit happens', which was a good one to come to terms with, the aim for the Jedi was really to shade the odds in Gallagher's favour. Luckily he managed to pull himself out the hole at the last moment, because frankly that side of the story was a total bust. Gallagher's current irritation at people thinking they could come and try and change his destiny with absolutey zero knowledge of any of the issues involved is rather warranted.
Jelena's response to that was the response of a well-adjusted Jedi, however.
Yes. But difficult. It would have involved following up Father Varm's criminal connections. From there, it could have been found that he handled the aspidrol distribution network. From there it could have been found that the distribution agents were all dying off at a rapid rate- Sienar was already self-destructing his own organisation. And a very close look into that would have shown that his distribution network used the same transport routes that broke down and hence aggravated the famine.
I guess I should have defined winning differently. I didn't see is as 'get everything I wanted'. Is see winning as the good guys defeating bad guys. That is how I see Star Wars, at least through the movies. Either the good guys won, or the bad guys won. We were there to stop Seinar adn we didn't, so, a loss for the Jedi. Andro was there to 'save' Gallagher, which until your last post in the game I though he was 'losing'. Since Gallagher didn't turn Dark, great, but apparently Andro did it wrong, so it looks loke a loss' for him in particular.
I was completely shocked at the end result. I was trying to portray Andro as having learned from his mistake in Seinar's office. Andro was there to 1. question Gallagher about his sister's murder, at which Gallagher wwent flying off the handle like a maniac. and 2. to save the lawyer. When we appeared, Gallagher was standing over the prone lawyer with a lit saber. I can't interpret that scene in any other way than Gallagher at least threatening the lawyer with his life, based on what we saw at first. Gallagher never denied trying to kill him, but gave a pretty good list of reasons he should. We learned that his sister's death was self defence, so Andro backed off of that.
I kept asking on the side about laws to see if there was a way we could get the lawyer, if he had indeed done anything wrong. I never once intended Andro killing him, letting him be killed or arresting him without proper cause. I totally bought into the idea that Gallagher inteded to kill him, so that's what I focussed on. I guess I totally misinterpreted the whole scene, but I really don't understand where I went wrong.
I messed up Andro's character in Seinar's office, in part because I had mistakenly thought that's what Ush intended Andro to do. Plus, it was a very intersting scene. But I've tried for the rest of the game to bring Andro back from that, so it's actually little depressing to find out with the very last post I was doing it completely wrong. My apologies to the other Jedi player, who I seem to have foiled unintentionally. The next Jedi game ought to be interesting, if it puts Andro working with Gallagher again. Of course, I'm not sure what the penalty is yet, so maybe they won't?
In Return of the Sith, the bad guys won- but the good guys had to get what they could or there was no hope for the future.
The interesting thing is how you define it as losing. When you CAME to Mandragos, you actually had no idea that the dead fm the amine was there to be played for. Looked at that way, it is rather unusual that you see it as a failure to not have stopped it. It's not your JOB to stop famines- it is the job of the Senate. It is their failure. of course, Sienar wants it to feel it is your fault, and the game played with the ideas of "Why don't the Jedi do more good things?" theme all the way through. It also suggested some possible reasons for that.
Remmeber, Gallagher was emotionally unstable on the roof. But he knew he didn't murder his sister and he knew that he was still on the Light Side. But he was still conflicted and unsure of himself, and that is why a confrontational attitude set him off.
I'll talk more about the moral of the story later, but Gallager summed it up with "Let it go" (this was the revelation that kept him on the Light), which is why Jelena's response was the best.
Oh, and of course it was meant to look like he was about to kill him- because that's exactly the same mistake Zaland made before. History repeats itself; that was what Jelena's vision was.
In the mean time... I have gotten to working on my 'player vs. player' game to take up people's time while we're waiting on the Renegades. It is intended that the Jedi from the Sienar plot and Dark Jedi players play it while the Jedi and Renegades focus on finishing theirs, but if they feel they really have time for the side-game, they are welcome.
It is going to be largely unrelated to anything Ush has run, with the exception that the entire story takes place on Erengard, the world featured in Melkor's Retro story and Esgabath's homeworld. Erengard being in Tasker's Crown is pretty much the only relation this will have to Ush's plotlines, and it will all be set several thousand years before the movies.
I sent out PMs to let people know, should be ready by Thanksgiving.