virtuoso's another great emcee that i've never heard anyone mention around here. i wouldn't say he's the best, but he's pretty damn good. ive got both his albums and i listened to this mixtape that i dled awhile ago last night and it was crazy. he picked up his game quite a bit.
cage is probably my favourite white emcee, then apathy and virtuoso. john smith is definitely sick, but he hasnt really blown me away with anything he's released.
i found the advance copy for Ghostface Killah- Fishscale
i haven't heard it yet, but apparently it's great, it just has to grow on you.
hxxp://rapidshare.de/files/14115019/Ghostface_Killah-Fishscale-_Advance_-RapGodFathers.com.rar
password: www.rapgodfathers.com
Originally posted by Darth Revanim dissapointed. 'Audition' wasn't that great. I think it still has to grow on me.
I know, I can't stop listening to it... I ordered Audition like a month ago, but it hasn't come yet 🙁
whats your fav track on ipecac neat?
mine's either 'Little Kicks' or 'That One'
too many great songs.
Yeah Virtuoso is nice, the whole Demigodz/Army of the Pharaohs collective is like a breeding ground for skilled white MCs. Esoteric and Louis Logic are my favorites to come outta those.
Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove
I would agree with everything you said with the exception of Cage being the best white MC. If he puts a couple more albums that are as high or close to the quality of Hell's Winter, then we'll talk.
Nah, that was Cage's Illmatic, that coupled with stuff like Among The Sleep off of MFTB is proof enough. Besides, name another white guy who came as consistently hard and versatile as he did on Hell's.
Originally posted by Deathblow
Yeah Virtuoso is nice, the whole Demigodz/Army of the Pharaohs collective is like a breeding ground for skilled white MCs. Esoteric and Louis Logic are my favorites to come outta those.Nah, that was Cage's Illmatic, that coupled with stuff like Among The Sleep off of MFTB is proof enough. Besides, name another white guy who came as consistently hard and versatile as he did on Hell's.
i was really into esoteric for awhile, i got tired of him though. if you listen to what hes saying, he doesnt make much sense half the time, it just sounds good. 7l deserves a better emcee.
by the way, louis logic's black eh.
Originally posted by Deathblow
Nah, that was Cage's Illmatic, that coupled with stuff like Among The Sleep off of MFTB is proof enough. Besides, name another white guy who came as consistently hard and versatile as he did on Hell's.
Eyedea for one. The Many Faces of Oliver Hart can compete with Hell's Winter anytime. And I would take his two albums with DJ Abilities over Movies For The Blind and Weatherproof.
Buck 65 for another. He may not have an album that is as good as Hell's Winter, but there isn't a more consistent hip hop artist who puts out quality albums while always changing up his style. He's the hip hop equivalent to Radiohead.
Not to me. The production on Hell's is absolutely stellar, and whilst Eyedea might be more complex than Cage, Cage is just so much realer. He's far easier to relate to, and he's got a sick cinematic edge to his narratives, kind of thing Raekwon, Nas and Prodigy had back in the day. Plus he has more charisma than both Eyedea and Buck (who's not the hip-hop Radiohead, he's too dull) put together, and mic presence is so important, I find.
End of the day, Hell's Winter is pretty damn close to being The Cold Vein, with a white guy. No seal of approval can't compete with that.
Originally posted by Phat J
i was really into esoteric for awhile, i got tired of him though. if you listen to what hes saying, he doesnt make much sense half the time, it just sounds good. 7l deserves a better emcee.by the way, louis logic's black eh.
I dig his delivery more than anything, he's real old-school. Plus he's a decent battle MC, even though half the time he's dissing artists I'm really into. I agree 7L is dope though, and he does get wasted. I remember he produced this single for Outerspace, the beat was crazy, but Crypt and Planetary are so average it's unbelievable. He needs to do more stuff with the other Boston boys, maybe take Fakts place in The Perceptionists, I bet Lif and Akro would sound sweeter over 7L's sounds.
He's not black, although he's obviously mixed race, but he's closer to being white. At least, from the pics I've seen.
Originally posted by Deathblow
Not to me. The production on Hell's is absolutely stellar, and whilst Eyedea might be more complex than Cage, Cage is just so much realer. He's far easier to relate to, and he's got a sick cinematic edge to his narratives, kind of thing Raekwon, Nas and Prodigy had back in the day. Plus he has more charisma than both Eyedea and Buck (who's not the hip-hop Radiohead, he's too dull) put together, and mic presence is so important, I find.End of the day, Hell's Winter is pretty damn close to being The Cold Vein, with a white guy. No seal of approval can't compete with that.
Which Cage didn't produce. I agree that production is better overall in Hell's Winter, but The Many Faces damn good also (Title track and Ode to the Wall take a bow). Let's also remember that Eyedea wrote, produced, arranged, mixed, and engineered pretty much the entire album while Cage pretty much had the dream team of hip hop producers to take care of that.
I don't see where you are going with Cage being "realer". Eyedea has always raped about issues about life,love, loss etc. So what if he hasn't had a hellish childhood. I bet anyone could relate to How Much Do You Pay? in some context.
Charisma is nice, and I'll give Cage a nod in that (I'm going to try to forget about Buck 65 actually being called dull, it's too funny of a statement to even think about) but versatility and flow wise, Eyedea is better. Eyedea can do punchlines, battle rapes, story telling, commentary, comedy, diss etc. And I would love to see Cage try to keep up with Carnage for longer than 30 seconds and be able to slow down like in Step by Step. Very few MC's can vary their flows like Eyedea, and Cage certainly isn't one of them.
I vary in opinions with you in The Cold Vein. I don't think it is far and away the greatest hip hop album. It is certainly up ther as one of the greatest but they're other albums that are as good, IMO.
Originally posted by Dr. StrangeloveYou dont think Movies for the Blind is up there with Hell's Winter?
I would agree with everything you said with the exception of Cage being the best white MC. If he puts a couple more albums that are as high or close to the quality of Hell's Winter, then we'll talk.
Yeah Cage is definetely one of my all time favorites, hes certainly the best white MC IMO, i acutally had John Smith above him, but after hearing Pinky's Laundromat, i bumbed him down,i dont know about you guys, but it was sort of a dissapointment for me, espically after how sick Blunderbus was. I prolly have to give Pinky's Laundromat another listen, cuz it was a little here and there for me.
Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove
Which Cage didn't produce. I agree that production is better overall in Hell's Winter, but The Many Faces damn good also (Title track and Ode to the Wall take a bow). Let's also remember that Eyedea wrote, produced, arranged, mixed, and engineered pretty much the entire album while Cage pretty much had the dream team of hip hop producers to take care of that.I don't see where you are going with Cage being "realer". Eyedea has always raped about issues about life,love, loss etc. So what if he hasn't had a hellish childhood. I bet anyone could relate to How Much Do You Pay? in some context.
Charisma is nice, and I'll give Cage a nod in that (I'm going to try to forget about Buck 65 actually being called dull, it's too funny of a statement to even think about) but versatility and flow wise, Eyedea is better. Eyedea can do punchlines, battle rapes, story telling, commentary, comedy, diss etc. And I would love to see Cage try to keep up with Carnage for longer than 30 seconds and be able to slow down like in Step by Step. Very few MC's can vary their flows like Eyedea, and Cage certainly isn't one of them.
You say that (italic text) like it's a bad thing. Camu Tao, DJ Shadow, El-P, Blockhead and RJD2 were behind the boards for Hell's Winter. Yes, and? That can't be brought up as a negative, unless you don't actually like hip-hop. In any case, this is about lyrical skill, not production.
You know what, I'm finding this debate to be pretty pointless anyway, largely as it's completely down to personal preference and is following the usual forum stereotype of two people attempting, pointlessly and ineffectively, to get one-ups on each other. Eyedea, to me, lacks the raw energy and hunger, not to mention certain grisly life experiences that make his words all the more affecting, which makes Cage such a presence on the mic, end of story. I respect that you disagree with me, and of all the white MCs, Eyedea is definitely one of the elite few along with Aes Rock, El-P and maybe Apathy, who I would concede as being equal to him (although I'd still disagree). My favorite Eyedea song: Color My World Mine. My favorite Cage song: Stripes. Which do I like more? Stripes. Favorite Eyedea album: Oliver Hart. Favorite Cage album: Hell's Winter (obviously). Which do I like more? Hell's. Ergo, I believe Cage to be the superior artist.
And I find Buck 65 slightly dull, big deal. A few people I've made copies of One Be Lo's album for say they find him dull, and I struggle to comprehend why. He's just not to their taste for whatever reason, as Buck isn't to mine. And I think, in all fairness, Company Flow are technically the closest to a ''Radiohead of hip-hop''.
Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove
I vary in opinions with you in The Cold Vein. I don't think it is far and away the greatest hip hop album. It is certainly up ther as one of the greatest but they're other albums that are as good, IMO.
Well, then it's back to the old case of ''not IMO, though''.
Originally posted by #16
infamous, RD, ob4cl, liquid swords, R2D, LAD, HoE all >>>> than the cold vein.ask any head.
With all due respect, I couldn't care less what ''any head'' says. It seems, like every other genre, many hip-hop fans are enslaved by the so-called 'classics', and anyone who doesn't join the flock of sheep in bleeting their forever loyal praises to Illmatic and Cuban Linx, and decides that actually, music does move on and newer, more experimental things can actually be good too, are wrong. I mean, ask any head, right? They all apparently think exactly the same thing after all.
So yeah, excuse me for finding the groundbreaking, epic, ugly/beautiful genre-transcending soundscapes that constitute The Cold Vein's production, and the poetic heart and soul that Vast Aire pours into Iron Galaxy, A B-Boy's Alpha, The F-Word, Pigeon and Scream Phoenix, more than the usual ''clothes, bankrolls and hoes''. Yeah yeah, 'smh' I know, but it's really not that I don't like Nas, on the contrary, I've defended him from many a put down, especially recently, but in my eyes, nothing can even touch The Cold Vein, and I have many arguments to back up why I believe it is an all time classic (of any genre) if you want to discuss it further. So whatever, you can choose to respect my opinions or not, I've said what I wanted to say.
That was a long post. I need drugs now.
Originally posted by Deathblow
You say that (italic text) like it's a bad thing. Camu Tao, DJ Shadow, El-P, Blockhead and RJD2 were behind the boards for Hell's Winter. Yes, and? That can't be brought up as a negative, unless you don't actually like hip-hop. In any case, this is about lyrical skill, not production.You know what, I'm finding this debate to be pretty pointless anyway, largely as it's completely down to personal preference and is following the usual forum stereotype of two people attempting, pointlessly and ineffectively, to get one-ups on each other. Eyedea, to me, lacks the raw energy and hunger, not to mention certain grisly life experiences that make his words all the more affecting, which makes Cage such a presence on the mic, end of story. I respect that you disagree with me, and of all the white MCs, Eyedea is definitely one of the elite few along with Aes Rock, El-P and maybe Apathy, who I would concede as being equal to him (although I'd still disagree). My favorite Eyedea song: Color My World Mine. My favorite Cage song: Stripes. Which do I like more? Stripes. Favorite Eyedea album: Oliver Hart. Favorite Cage album: Hell's Winter (obviously). Which do I like more? Hell's. Ergo, I believe Cage to be the superior artist.
And I find Buck 65 slightly dull, big deal. A few people I've made copies of One Be Lo's album for say they find him dull, and I struggle to comprehend why. He's just not to their taste for whatever reason, as Buck isn't to mine. And I think, in all fairness, Company Flow are technically the closest to a ''Radiohead of hip-hop''.
I think when it comes down to two great Mc's, it's going to come down to personal preference. But pointless? No. It would be pointless if we ran out of things to say over two pages of debate and start attacking each other like so many other debates end up in this forum. We both passionately debated our stance on both MC's in which you can make a great case for either.
I respect that. I really like Cage but at this time in my life, Eyedea speaks to me more. I'm like you in that I'm in transitional period of soon becoming a full fledge adult and Eyedea speaks on a lot of those issues that I think about. Hell's Winter is more about Cage's past which is fine, but for me, I am not as drawn to going down memory lane as that's been something after having a tough childhood, I've moved on from.
*Wait unit D00M gets back to ridicule you for not including John Smith. 😉 *
If he's not your thing, that's fine. Never said otherwise.
Originally posted by Deathblowco-sign on the Cold Vein statement. that album is on a whole different level...and im starting to believe the same thing with Ipecac Neat
You say that (italic text) like it's a bad thing. Camu Tao, DJ Shadow, El-P, Blockhead and RJD2 were behind the boards for Hell's Winter. Yes, and? That can't be brought up as a negative, unless you don't actually like hip-hop. In any case, this is about lyrical skill, not production.You know what, I'm finding this debate to be pretty pointless anyway, largely as it's completely down to personal preference and is following the usual forum stereotype of two people attempting, pointlessly and ineffectively, to get one-ups on each other. Eyedea, to me, lacks the raw energy and hunger, not to mention certain grisly life experiences that make his words all the more affecting, which makes Cage such a presence on the mic, end of story. I respect that you disagree with me, and of all the white MCs, Eyedea is definitely one of the elite few along with Aes Rock, El-P and maybe Apathy, who I would concede as being equal to him (although I'd still disagree). My favorite Eyedea song: Color My World Mine. My favorite Cage song: Stripes. Which do I like more? Stripes. Favorite Eyedea album: Oliver Hart. Favorite Cage album: Hell's Winter (obviously). Which do I like more? Hell's. Ergo, I believe Cage to be the superior artist.
And I find Buck 65 slightly dull, big deal. A few people I've made copies of One Be Lo's album for say they find him dull, and I struggle to comprehend why. He's just not to their taste for whatever reason, as Buck isn't to mine. And I think, in all fairness, Company Flow are technically the closest to a ''Radiohead of hip-hop''.
Well, then it's back to the old case of ''not IMO, though''.
With all due respect, I couldn't care less what ''any head'' says. It seems, like every other genre, many hip-hop fans are enslaved by the so-called 'classics', and anyone who doesn't join the flock of sheep in bleeting their forever loyal praises to Illmatic and Cuban Linx, and decides that actually, music does move on and newer, more experimental things can actually be good too, are wrong. I mean, ask any head, right? They all apparently think exactly the same thing after all.
So yeah, excuse me for finding the groundbreaking, epic, ugly/beautiful genre-transcending soundscapes that constitute The Cold Vein's production, and the poetic heart and soul that Vast Aire pours into Iron Galaxy, A B-Boy's Alpha, The F-Word, Pigeon and Scream Phoenix, more than the usual ''clothes, bankrolls and hoes''. Yeah yeah, 'smh' I know, but it's really not that I don't like Nas, on the contrary, I've defended him from many a put down, especially recently, but in my eyes, nothing can even touch The Cold Vein, and I have many arguments to back up why I believe it is an all time classic (of any genre) if you want to discuss it further. So whatever, you can choose to respect my opinions or not, I've said what I wanted to say.
That was a long post. I need drugs now.
Thats the longest post i've ever seen from DB, you must have really struck a nerve there Dr. 😄
I've got Cold Vein playing in my car at the moment, love it. I wouldnt go as far to say its hands down the greatest but by now we all realise that its all opinions at this point.
I havent heard much from Cage but Hells Winter sounds by all accounts like a must have so i'll get that when i have the money. Eyedea is awesome, Colour the world mine is an epic track that still blows me away today.
Anyone heard a track by Vast and Vordul called A and I 2000? Great track, wouldnt be out of place on Cold Vein. Also anyone heard You will listen by Playdough? I got it off D00m on slsk and have fallen in love with it. I'll be happy to up it if you havent.