Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not a matter of having nothing more to say though, not in Milla's case. I've been in many debates in which I've countered her and she's made up some horsecrap excuse not to reply to the post, in which, I coincidentally proved her wrong. She dodges posts all the time, then continues either replying to others who are saying things in a manner that is to her liking, or cheerleads anyone who replies to me, purely because she cannot do it alone.If you want to discuss something with me, do it. I don't care if you disagree, but at least be man (or woman) enough to admit when you've been countered instead of turning on the silent treatment. It's pathetic.
And what about the time you guys agree? It's that the only time you don't mind her? Again, is not about dodgin posts...if there is nothing more to say...that's it! Conversation is over...why go on? When you say "If you want to discuss something with me, do it" Ehh...I sincerely hope you don't think that rule solely applies to you. It's a general rule for everyone. As I said if there is nothing more to say....
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm giving attention to the discussion of the situation. Not too sure from where you deduced that I care because I chose to discuss it. I just chose to discuss it because people were replying in a way that interested me.
It seem to me that you did care...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I can deny it. It's not a tragedy if I don't consider it one, TO ME. If you wanna consider it one, knock yourself out. It's a tragedy to his friends, his family, maybe his fans. I'm none of the previous.
But YOU claim to be a devoted music fan one would think you'd cared. It's not tragedy because you don't consider one? yet in other threads I read you saying that the war in Iraq is a tragedy. That the people getting kill are a tragedy....yet, you don't know them....so you only pick and choose to suit your argument?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Totally different situation. They are using a fake and harmless medium to express a situation in video games. They're not out there saying "It is ok to do this" or "I do this, and I speak about it as a positive." It's not real, it's a game.Music isn't a game, it's real. Granted, in ANY medium there will be an idiot who decides to take things too far, but we're not talking about fan reaction as much here. We're talking about the lifestyle these people lead and what it can lead to. IE: F*cking around in a gang or with gangs will get you into trouble and when that trouble comes, you either brought it on yourself or did nothing to stop it.
Both music and video games are hobbies and occasionally can reflect reality but nearly most of it is fictional. If music was real...then Puff the Magic Dragon, Floating Yellow Submarine, Zooropa would exist...do they?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
D12 choose to go around saying things about people they perhaps shouldn't, provoking people, saying things in their songs about how they will shoot you and how if anybody "wants it" with them, they just need to start it and they'll end up in a body bag and shit. Big surprise when one of them gets shot. Hence why Eminem was trying to say "Stop all this." He knows he got his friends into shit that possible could get them killed, and it did. Too little, too late.
That was his ACT....entertainers....remenber AC?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauriyou haven't heard him do tracks with Chino. he shows his true skills. i could...oh wait nevermind. no uploading allowed.
First, two verses and there are obviously more.You were the one who said he never did gun-talk, now you're flip flopping.
He talked about guns just as much as any member of D12 and he did so as if it was a cool thing. He is now dead, ironically by gunshot.
Tough shit.
-AC
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
For the future referance, please understand that my choice of not replying to your posts reflects my opinion of you.I do not care, haven't the time or will to argue with you. I have already told you, I do not appreciate your opinion down my throat - and for the most part I do not think anyone cares about what you have to say, hence noone bothering.
This, obviously does not reflect that you are ''right'' just that noone gives a damn.
As I previously said, making up bs excuses for not replying to me.
In a previous debate about, I think, rape...I made a post that you didn't like. Remember? You replied, I countered you and then you decided to say "Nah, not replying. Too insulting." when I didn't insult you once. I then civilly asked you to reply and said that it wasn't meant to be insulting, you still dodged me. You made another post, I replied again, you dodged again. Then, when someone replied to me, you posted "I love you."
Get a clue, please. Remove YOUR head from your ass before telling others that no-one gives a damn. I KNOW people talk shit about me, you obviously believe that everyone follows you around with a roses smell.
-AC
here's the Proof i'm talking about.
[Proof]
What does the mic and beat mean to me
It's more than just greenery
It's not what I do to be
It's savage with thievery
Easily I was sucked in
By these labels that ****ed with
Over and over with me and tried a hold to get publishin
It's not what you think it is
Imagine a stinkin kid
Fiend for a dream and snappin a blink it in
Before ya eyes you
And all ya guys been
The tour then rise oh shit you while and dies
You in love with this hip hop
You don't care when the shit stop
But then the shit stop make you overflow when you get dropped
It's back to the street agains
Search for the beat again
Find the love again a piece of paper I need a pen
This is the essence man
For me and my blessed friends
Although with your separate ends
Proof got a second win
But hate what I become through the venom in my tongue
But I could find myself by the rhythm of the drum[Hook]
It's the beats (the beats) the rhymes (the rhymes)
The mic (the mic) we shine (we shine)
It's yours (it's yours) it's mine (it's mine)
This our time yall niggaz get back in line
It's the beats (the beats) the rhymes (the rhymes)
The mic (the mic) we shine (we shine)
It's yours (it's yours) it's mine (it's mine)
It's our time yall niggaz get back in line[Chino XL]
Is it okay if the Neptunes didn't produce me?
Is it okay if I poor my heart out over looseleaf?
Is it okay wack rappers die and I don't lose sleep?
Excuse me but hip hop these days it don't enthuse me
I been framed like Mona Lisa, crucified like Easter
My dreams I still leave none dead like Mother Theresa
Trekked to be a star show no emotion like Data
The business is gay and it's homeless got not posit to come outta
Matter of fact it takes a real nigga like Proof to understand me
I can't dress crazy like Outkast to win the Grammy
Even ya family tries to play you till you get all rich
The whole world is underhanded like a softball pitch
A while back to define rap was ill verses on albums
I spit it harder than hitchhikin with no thumbs
They're makin hip hop a joke when there's nothin to smile at
I stay stoned like naked white women hoein in Iraq
Would you rather be a revered reverend thug angel in Heaven or
Famous in Hell then in yaself like David Chapelle to sell
Knowin ya in a cell for well from too stealth
I refuse to blow a verses that smell like pricewell
(Yo yall thug niggaz is wack but that money put some kid through college)
**** 'em I spit his mom if they hit his garbage
So many fallow what they really shallow
Would not allow my daughters to even watch the channel
Unless Alicia Keyes or Tina Marie is rockin the piano
This ain't Chingy nigga, this is Chino
This flow right herr' be wetter than Finding Nemo
Fame ain't what I thought it be like
It's like midnight in the desert full of rattlesnakes
waitin for one to strike
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
And what about the time you guys agree? It's that the only time you don't mind her? Again, is not about dodgin posts...if there is nothing more to say...that's it! Conversation is over...why go on? When you say "If you want to discuss something with me, do it" Ehh...I sincerely hope you don't think that rule solely applies to you. It's a general rule for everyone. As I said if there is nothing more to say....
As proven above, it is actually about dodging posts. You haven't seen it happen and you are friends with her, so you're biased. There are many posters who have seen her antics and mods who agree with me.
As for her agreeing, I couldn't care less if she agrees or not. If she has the decency to reply rather than dodge and be a cheerleader, that's all I ask. She can't comply.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It seem to me that you did care...
Well I, the person you refer to, am telling you that I do not. We needn't go on.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
But YOU claim to be a devoted music fan one would think you'd cared. It's not tragedy because you don't consider one? yet in other threads I read you saying that the war in Iraq is a tragedy. That the people getting kill are a tragedy....yet, you don't know them....so you only pick and choose to suit your argument?
I think the war in Iraq is a bad thing, but it was going to happen sooner or later. I think the REASONS it happen are a tragedy. I think what happened with 9/11 was tragic. Many innocent people dying. Proof didn't exactly have a clean slate, as I have proven.
Of course, to your other claim. I concern myself with those I care about, what's the big deal? I love my family and friends, I couldn't give a shit about anyone else that has had no effect on my life. If someone loved Proof's music, then they will of course be sad. I'm merely discussing why.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Both music and video games are hobbies and occasionally can reflect reality but nearly most of it is fictional. If music was real...then Puff the Magic Dragon, Floating Yellow Submarine, Zooropa would exist...do they?
Music is real, the lyrical content may not be. To which you can reply "Exactly, so all that gangster talk might be bs." True, but why would anybody want to f*cking brag about that? Especially if it's not true. It reinforces my point of reaping what you sow.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
That was his ACT....entertainers....remenber AC?
See above.
-AC
Originally posted by -hh-
you haven't heard him do tracks with Chino. he shows his true skills. i could...oh wait nevermind. no uploading allowed.
Don't assume I've not heard the tracks, you know better than that.
Secondly, so what? Are you disproving what I am saying? No you are not. "He didn't do that gun talk." "Are you serious AC?" Yes, and I've proven my point. If he didn't mean it, then he's dumb for saying it.
Originally posted by -hh-
here's the Proof i'm talking about.
So? The Proof that only people properly into hip hop would have heard?
Here's the Proof that he chose to broadcast to millions upon millions of people:
"Just bring who you gon' bring on.
Who you gon' swing on?
I'm King Kong, guns blow you to kingdom come.
Show you machine gun funk.
Sixteen M-16's and one pump.
The snub in my paw, shove it in your jaw.
Have you runnin out this f*ckin' club in your drawers.
We lovin' the broads, there's nothin' to applaud.
But f*ck, it it's all good, the hood is up in The Source.
It's fight music."
And now he's dead.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauriwell obviously AC. The guy had 5 kids, and the only way to make $$$ was to work with D12 and not with Chino. I don't blame him. $$$ = Power
Don't assume I've not heard the tracks, you know better than that.Secondly, so what? Are you disproving what I am saying? No you are not. "He didn't do that gun talk." "Are you serious AC?" Yes, and I've proven my point. If he didn't mean it, then he's dumb for saying it.
So? The Proof that only people properly into hip hop would have heard?
Here's the Proof that he chose to broadcast to millions upon millions of people:
"Just bring who you gon' bring on.
Who you gon' swing on?
I'm King Kong, guns blow you to kingdom come.
Show you machine gun funk.
Sixteen M-16's and one pump.
The snub in my paw, shove it in your jaw.
Have you runnin out this f*ckin' club in your drawers.
We lovin' the broads, there's nothin' to applaud.
But f*ck, it it's all good, the hood is up in The Source.
It's fight music."And now he's dead.
-AC
I held you to be smarter and more appreciative of talent and music than to resort to JacopeX levels of retorting.
Disappointing, but it proves my point further. The guy had 5 kids so he chose to make himself filthy rich by sucking Eminem and rapping about guns.
5 fatherless kids who would rather have their dad than the money. Selfish idiot then isn't he?
There's a difference between wanting to make enough money to live comfortably and wanting to make enough money to brag. MF Doom isn't on the breadline, Slug isn't collecting welfare.
Don't talk shit that you don't believe, HH. You're better than that.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriJacopeX level? at this point i dont need to have a convo with you. you clearly think to highly of yourself.
I held you to be smarter and more appreciative of talent and music than to resort to JacopeX levels of retorting.Disappointing, but it proves my point further. The guy had 5 kids so he chose to make himself filthy rich by sucking Eminem and rapping about guns.
5 fatherless kids who would rather have their dad than the money. Selfish idiot then isn't he?
There's a difference between wanting to make enough money to live comfortably and wanting to make enough money to brag. MF Doom isn't on the breadline, Slug isn't collecting welfare.
Don't talk shit that you don't believe, HH. You're better than that.
-AC
Typical, rather than concentrate on everything else I said, you pull a Lil Bitchiness and focus on what you don't like.
On the contrary, I thought better of you and I do still believe that you don't believe this power of the dollar bs that you are spewing out.
All of the posts you have made on this forum have been the complete opposite of what you just said, so why you've decided to turn your brain off and promote being a whore for the dollar is beyond me.
Don't take it as an insult.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriNo i wont take it as an insult. I guess we just dont see eye to eye on this one.
Typical, rather than concentrate on everything else I said, you pull a Lil Bitchiness and focus on what you don't like.On the contrary, I thought better of you and I do still believe that you don't believe this power of the dollar bs that you are spewing out.
All of the posts you have made on this forum have been the complete opposite of what you just said, so why you've decided to turn your brain off and promote being a whore for the dollar is beyond me.
Don't take it as an insult.
-AC
I know that you know it's possible to make money in music, lots of it, and be successful without being all over MTV making music that you know you hate. There's a difference between ambition and greed.
So why do you retort with "He had 5 kids"? So what? He had 5 kids and had to become a whore as a result? No, you know he didn't. Like I said, look at some other underground or independent artists: Sage, Can Ox, Doom, Aceyalone, Mr. Lif etc. They all make enough money to feed their entire family if they wanted to, you know that. So why you came out with that unbelievable argument is what shocked me.
Ghostface and the rest of the Wu-Tang made it big, infact, they made it HUGE. They're very rich, but they didn't do it by putting out music and selling themselves just so they would sell. They did it by doing things no MCs did before them (or after, really).
Proof didn't need to do what he did to make money, he did because he became a very greedy man, enough wasn't enough, then more than enough became not enough, he talked about things on record that should be considered taboo for any serious hip hop musician. I'm not saying the man deserved to die, I'm saying he got what might very well have been coming to him, and now those kids you mentioned haven't got a dad. Money may be "important", but it's not that important.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriI dont see how he became "Greedy". It's rare for me to watch MTV, but i have never seen him on MTV besides on that "My Band" music video and yesterday's News about his death. So how do you know he was greedy? Isn't that kinda an assumption. As i said, he had to talk about violence to keep consistent with the rest of D12. If he did decide to work with Chino, i don't think he would have any $ at all. Chino is wealthy though, and i think that's cuz he's part of MENSA.
I know that you know it's possible to make money in music, lots of it, and be successful without being all over MTV making music that you know you hate. There's a difference between ambition and greed.So why do you retort with "He had 5 kids"? So what? He had 5 kids and had to become a whore as a result? No, you know he didn't. Like I said, look at some other underground or independent artists: Sage, Can Ox, Doom, Aceyalone, Mr. Lif etc. They all make enough money to feed their entire family if they wanted to, you know that. So why you came out with that unbelievable argument is what shocked me.
Ghostface and the rest of the Wu-Tang made it big, infact, they made it HUGE. They're very rich, but they didn't do it by putting out music and selling themselves just so they would sell. They did it by doing things no MCs did before them (or after, really).
Proof didn't need to do what he did to make money, he did because he became a very greedy man, enough wasn't enough, then more than enough became not enough, he talked about things on record that should be considered taboo for any serious hip hop musician. I'm not saying the man deserved to die, I'm saying he got what might very well have been coming to him, and now those kids you mentioned haven't got a dad. Money may be "important", but it's not that important.
-AC
And you make a good point about Wu, but that's cuz they started a popular trend in the early 90's (maybe i'm wrong about this). The whold "W" thing was popular. My older cousins were all into the whole throw up your "W's" (😛) when i was younger.
Originally posted by -hh-
I dont see how he became "Greedy". It's rare for me to watch MTV, but i have never seen him on MTV besides on that "My Band" music video and yesterday's News about his death. So how do you know he was greedy? Isn't that kinda an assumption. As i said, he had to talk about violence to keep consistent with the rest of D12. If he did decide to work with Chino, i don't think he would have any $ at all. Chino is wealthy though, and i think that's cuz he's part of MENSA.
You answered your own question, HH.
He became greedy because despite "wanting" to "CLEARLY" make the kind of hip hop he made with Chino, he betrayed himself and did something highly irresponsible, unintelligent and rather whore-orientated by condoning violence and treating it as a positive. Why? For the sake of money. Why? Because everyone else did it. If he didn't want to do it, he wouldn't have. Either that or he's a sheep. It was clearly about the money. He wanted more and more, just like Eminem. That's greed. If all he wanted to do was provide for his family WHILST making music he loved, he could have done it his own way. He chose not to.
Originally posted by -hh-
And you make a good point about Wu, but that's cuz they started a popular trend in the early 90's (maybe i'm wrong about this). The whold "W" thing was popular. My older cousins were all into the whole throw up your "W's" (😛) when i was younger.
Let's not overlook the crucial and main point that they had a multitude of MCs, all of which were different to not only each other, but every other MC that was in the game then or previously. They put out a groundbreaking debut in Enter the Wu-Tang: 36 Chambers, and they continued to do so even if it did get a bit patchy. They continued to make the music they wanted even if their fans started getting a bit pissy about it.
The whole fact of the matter is that you should know better than to use that "He had kids to feed" bs in an argument. Or the "He did it because D12 did." He either did it because he wanted to, or he did it for the money. Either case proves my point.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As proven above, it is actually about dodging posts. You haven't seen it happen and you are friends with her, so you're biased. There are many posters who have seen her antics and mods who agree with me.
Wow AC... your comment resembles this quote "you're friends with the person who disagrees with me...therefore YOU AGAISN'T ME".
I think we don't need to talk about antics here if lil is using them...she's not the only one. It's like the pot calling the kettle black....
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Music is real, the lyrical content may not be. To which you can reply "Exactly, so all that gangster talk might be bs." True, but why would anybody want to f*cking brag about that? Especially if it's not true. It reinforces my point of reaping what you sow.
-AC
Video games are real (I play them and buy them just like music) the content may not be. So what's the difference? it's still a hobby. I'm glad you recongnize that all that gansta talk is BS. It's suppose to be like that...it's what the fans want. They aren't reaping what they sow...they're only expanding their act farther....it's part of the act.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Wow AC... your comment resembles this quote "you're friends with the person who disagrees with me...therefore YOU AGAISN'T ME".I think we don't need to talk about antics here if lil is using them...she's not the only one. It's like the pot calling the kettle black....
Then why try to comment in defense of her when you neither saw or knew about the situations to which I am referring? I saw it, so did others. Coincidentally (but not really) they agree. She did what she did and she'll never admit to doing it because she hates hypocrites, she's also one herself.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Video games are real (I play them and buy them just like music) the content may not be. So what's the difference? it's still a hobby. I'm glad you recongnize that all that gansta talk is BS. It's suppose to be like that...it's what the fans want. They aren't reaping what they sow...they're only expanding their act farther....it's part of the act.
I never said it was all bs, the gangster talk. Don't put words into my posts. I said that even if it was, you deserve what you get. Serves you right for going out and talking about shit you shouldn't be. I might go make an anti-jew, pro-holocaust record to appeal to the many nazis out there. I don't mean a single word of it, but still. If I get killed for it, who cares? Only entertaining people, right? I didn't mean it.
You are continually missing my point, so I'll say it further. If you say something that is quite volatile and obviously going to stir up a lot of dangerous and negative shit, whether you mean it or not, don't complain when that negativity comes gunning you down.
I don't want tons of anti-nazis at my door kicking my head in, so you know what I WON'T do? I won't go out saying shit that would lead that to happen, especially since I don't believe it. Proof was out there promoting gun crime, gun violence and gangster mentality, eventually people will call him up on it, they did. Now he's buried under the ground.
If you keep tapping someone on the shoulder, sooner or later they'll turn around and smack you in the mouth.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Then why try to comment in defense of her when you neither saw or knew about the situations to which I am referring? I saw it, so did others. Coincidentally (but not really) they agree. She did what she did and she'll never admit to doing it because she hates hypocrites, she's also one herself.
There you go again! Pot calling the kettle black. She has long ago move on and you keep mention her and pointing out errors you think she's made. It would be nice if you'd stop but is quite obvious I let you continue just so you express yourself and you don't run back saying that we censor you or we're bias agaisn't you.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I never said it was all bs, the gangster talk. Don't put words into my posts. I said that even if it was, you deserve what you get. Serves you right for going out and talking about shit you shouldn't be. I might go make an anti-jew, pro-holocaust record to appeal to the many nazis out there. I don't mean a single word of it, but still. If I get killed for it, who cares? Only entertaining people, right? I didn't mean it.You are continually missing my point, so I'll say it further. If you say something that is quite volatile and obviously going to stir up a lot of dangerous and negative shit, whether you mean it or not, don't complain when that negativity comes gunning you down.
I don't want tons of anti-nazis at my door kicking my head in, so you know what I WON'T do? I won't go out saying shit that would lead that to happen, especially since I don't believe it. Proof was out there promoting gun crime, gun violence and gangster mentality, eventually people will call him up on it, they did. Now he's buried under the ground.
If you keep tapping someone on the shoulder, sooner or later they'll turn around and smack you in the mouth.
-AC
I'm missing the point and you're missing mine...which is that these people are entertainers for their fans. They supply their fans with what they want and at times take risks while doing it. We (i.e. the fans) support and shape them...we help change them when we want change and when don't like it we either drop it or hope for the best. You may not want controversy on your shoulder but you're NOT an entertainer. BIG difference, right? Rather than blame the Hip hop artist for their style of violent form entertainment. We should recognize that they take it to the limit in order to excite their fans. There is a BIG difference when hype is talk in the mic and actually committing a crime. But YOU have this mental state that says "He's asking for it" when in reality the guy is just doing his act.
TV shows like South Park continually stir things up...are they asking for trouble or just providing their fans with the entertainment they want? Can you apply that to all these fictional gangster entertainers?
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
There you go again! Pot calling the kettle black. She has long ago move on and you keep mention her and pointing out errors you think she's made. It would be nice if you'd stop but is quite obvious I let you continue just so you express yourself and you don't run back saying that we censor you or we're bias agaisn't you.
Excuse me? You chose to enter this thread and get involved, your first line was regarding my situation with her. It's none of your business, but since you asked, I told and I told it like it is. I continued because you decided to embark upon a "Well I agree with her a lot, and it's fine" crusade. Don't start anything, there won't be anything.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I'm missing the point and you're missing mine...which is that these people are entertainers for their fans. They supply their fans with what they want and at times take risks while doing it. We (i.e. the fans) support and shape them...we help change them when we want change and when don't like it we either drop it or hope for the best. You may not want controversy on your shoulder but you're NOT an entertainer. BIG difference, right? Rather than blame the Hip hop artist for their style of violent form entertainment. We should recognize that they take it to the limit in order to excite their fans. There is a BIG difference when hype is talk in the mic and actually committing a crime. But YOU have this mental state that says "He's asking for it" when in reality the guy is just doing his act.
No, I'm not missing your point. I do get it, it just isn't applicable here. I don't listen to people who's music is dictated by their fans, for one, so the "we" doesn't apply to me. Same with many people in this thread with regards to hip hop.
Second, exactly. You take the risks and sooner or later when you PURPOSEFULLY promote volatile and violent conduct, someone will come at you and not necessarily because they're mental. Although I question the mentality of anyone who finds gun crime glorification to be cool or entertaining anyway.
You again miss my point. So I'll type it clearer:
He is doing his act, right? Fine. So what? His act ENCOURAGES violence, it's not just violent subject matter. So when violence occurs, in this case aimed at him, it's called karma. What goes around will eventually come back around. You can't encourage violence and then say "B-but not at me."
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
TV shows like South Park continually stir things up...are they asking for trouble or just providing their fans with the entertainment they want? Can you apply that to all these fictional gangster entertainers?
There's a big difference as I said. Depicting something violent and actually encouraging people to go do the act are two different things.
Showing someone Hostel and them re-enacting is pure idiocy. Me showing them the movie and saying "Go do it" is asking for trouble. If they do it to me, I more or less asked for it. Talking about violence and encouraging it when you know there are fans out there who will do it, is stupid. At least if you DON'T encourage it you have that on your side. If you do, you have no legs to stand on.
I get your point perfectly well. It's an act so he didn't deserve it, you don't get mine. Mine being that whether it was an act or not, his encouragement paid off, unfortunately for him.
-AC
As an aside of absolutely no (all) relevance:
"Proof -- the D12 rapper and longtime friend of Eminem who was fatally shot during a shootout Tuesday at a Detroit club -- fired the first bullet, police stated Wednesday.
The victim, Keith Bender, 35, was shot in the head at 3C, a bar located on the city's famed Eight Mile strip. Police were called to the scene around 5 a.m. after reports of gunfire and fighting at the venue, which was operating illegally after-hours."
Must have been a water pistol. Considering it was an entertaining act and such.
He didn't deserve it though...'course not.
-AC