Originally posted by quanchi112
Their strength has been written as equal without having anything to do with magic. His advantage over Superman in a fight is his magic but when it comes to strength itself they are equals.I have seen Superman do so against WW and I can see Marvel matching it.
says who? a vague description during a fight?
superman wasn't fighting at his best. not nearly. he didnt have a dynamic amp either.
Originally posted by roughrider
Some truth to that; he can push himself. However, unlike Hulk he cannot sustain it very long. What has been shown in storylines like The Death Of Superman & Avengers/JLA, is that he puts himself in danger of burnout if he pushes himself too hard for too long, and can empty his tank completely unless he gets a chance to recharge & heal.
Two stories that have little to no influence over the way Superman has been portrayed for years... Post resurrection, Slowly but surely he's been very much portrayed in the same way as he was pre Crisis, I.e. the Top of the D.C. food chain, when it comes to brute strength.
Originally posted by -Pr-He was fighting without holding back though. He hit WW as hard as he could. I can see Marvel doing the same with an all out punch.
says who? a vague description during a fight?superman wasn't fighting at his best. not nearly. he didnt have a dynamic amp either.
KC Supes is more than regular Supes and he wasn't written to dominate Marvel even in kc. They are always written as equals in terms of strength.
Originally posted by Cartesian DoubtI think it stands to reason Marvel would be a real demon just like Supes with him cutting loose.
Playing devils advocate here, but I was normally say no ... But no ones ever seen Marvel really cut loose. And if K.C. is anything to go on, he can still easily handle a very amped Supes.God I love that story 🙂
I didn't care much for kc personally.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was fighting without holding back though. He hit WW as hard as he could. I can see Marvel doing the same with an all out punch.KC Supes is more than regular Supes and he wasn't written to dominate Marvel even in kc. They are always written as equals in terms of strength.
I think it stands to reason Marvel would be a real demon just like Supes with him cutting loose.
I didn't care much for kc personally.
he wasn't dynamically amped, though.
kc isn't even canon, and isn't usable.
Originally posted by -Pr-I am saying though we had another writer who used a more powerful superman still match up against a marvel.
he wasn't dynamically amped, though.kc isn't even canon, and isn't usable.
Superman was pretty close to the sun, but like I said since both Superman and marvel have limits it makes sense to me anyways with both going all out their strength evens out.
This is outside of a sunamp or sundip though of course.
Originally posted by -Pr-But kc is canon and he is superior to superman. The point is you can't find a showing where superman is just better than marvel in direct comparison. Superman has more showings therefore he has superior feats is all.
which doesn't really mean much, though, as it isn't canon.
Originally posted by quanchi112
But kc is canon and he is superior to superman. The point is you can't find a showing where superman is just better than marvel in direct comparison. Superman has more showings therefore he has superior feats is all.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
^ Earth 22 Superman =/= KC Superman. They're just very similar.KC is an alternate timeline while Earth 22 is an alternate Universe entirely.
You can't really distinguish between Captain Marvel & Superman when they fight - every match is a decades long in-joke involving their tangled legal history from the 1940's, when Marvel's Fawcett Publishing was sued and shut down by DC Comics. They have opposite power sources, and one occasionally gets the better of the other, but writers still have fun with the idea they are the same guy; dead even. 🙄
Originally posted by -Pr-kc isn't even canon, and isn't usable.
This is what annoys me about this forums - its so Orientated towards the debating part, that you can't speculate, theories or even discuss comics, without someone ramming a KMC factor down you're throat. In some cases its almost as if KMC acts as some kind of meta-paradigm for the story lines.
The truth is Mark Waid has greater authority for the normative portrayal of Superman, than any Forum rule perspective. So when it comes to speculating about characters power levels, as in the case of this thread, I'm gonna be more influenced by a respected writers, than what the forum requires.
Speculating, with the forum rules seems contradictory, any way. I was under the impression that the Forum requires members to consider characters in their most powerful form ?, so other portrayals are meaningless ?
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
This is what annoys me about this forums - its so Orientated towards the debating part, that you can't speculate, theories or even discuss comics, without someone ramming a KMC factor down you're throat. In some cases its almost as if KMC acts as some kind of meta-paradigm for the story lines.
The truth is Mark Waid has greater authority for the normative portrayal of Superman, than any Forum rule perspective. So when it comes to speculating about characters power levels, as in the case of this thread, I'm gonna be more influenced by a respected writers, than what the forum requires.
Speculating, with the forum rules seems contradictory, any way. I was under the impression that the Forum requires members to consider characters in their most powerful form ?, so other portrayals are meaningless ?
pr1983
except:
We're taking about normal, standard Superman here. Not Earth 2 Superman or Kingdom Come Superman. We have to go by what standard Superman has done, or otherwise there's no point to the argument.
i would have picked a better example than Mark Waid. Seriously.
And no, it doesn't. The average portrayal is what comes first, not the most powerful.
Originally posted by -Pr-
pr1983except:
We're taking about normal, standard Superman here. Not Earth 2 Superman or Kingdom Come Superman. We have to go by what standard Superman has done, or otherwise there's no point to the argument.
1.)Your first post was clearly related to the debating forums - hence youre the useage of the term "usable" as in "kc isn't even canon, and isn't usable" ... which seems quite arbitrary unless you mean it in a Kmc debating forum sense?
2.)No ... The title of the thread doesn't specify - I thought it refers to the general concept/ Abstract object spanning all realities and genres - Not earth One
Originally posted by -Pr-
i would have picked a better example than Mark Waid. Seriously./B]
Except ...he's written two of the most highly regraded Superman stories of all time 🙄
Originally posted by -Pr-
[B]pr1983And no, it doesn't. The average portrayal is what comes first, not the most powerful.
I don't even care about this - don't use the debating forums, and Have no intention of doing so, have never read the rules, and and never will do.
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
1.)Your first post was clearly related to the debating forums - hence youre the useage of the term "usable" as in "kc isn't even canon, and isn't usable" ... which seems quite arbitrary unless you mean it in a Kmc debating forum sense?2.)No ... The title of the thread doesn't specify - I thought it refers to the general concept/ Abstract object spanning all realities and genres - Not earth One
Except ...he's written two of the most highly regraded Superman stories of all time 🙄
I don't even care about this - don't use the debating forums, and Have no intention of doing so, have never read the rules, and and never will do.
there are different incarnations. if you want to argue that kc superman and kc captain marvel are equals, then fine. if you want to argue that earth 1 supes and earth 1 captain marvel are equals, then fine.
mixing and matching doesn't really serve any purpose, though.
"usable" as in the context of this thread, which is to an extent a debate thread when viewed in the context of mine and quan's interaction.
he's also the guy that dc wouldn't let touch superman with a ten foot pole for more than a few years. hell, he still gets rough treatment over it.
then why bring it up?