I know this thread died over a year ago, but I couldn't help it.
If this is Classic Juggernaut, what is Superman going to do to him? Anything and everything Supes does to Juggy will NOT PHASE HIM IN THE SLIGHTEST.
Remember that whole invulnerability thing? Yea. That unlimited strength thing? Yea.
This is just like Juggernaut vs. Hulk. This is another example of a Stalemate. Juggy could never really hurt Superman (too fast and such), and Superman could NEVER hurt or damage Juggy in any way.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I know this thread died over a year ago, but I couldn't help it.If this is Classic Juggernaut, what is Superman going to do to him? Anything and everything Supes does to Juggy will NOT PHASE HIM IN THE SLIGHTEST.
Remember that whole invulnerability thing? Yea. That unlimited strength thing? Yea.
This is just like Juggernaut vs. Hulk. This is another example of a Stalemate. Juggy could never really hurt Superman (too fast and such), and Superman could NEVER hurt or damage Juggy in any way.
<<How would he crush him? He can't be damaged? That whole invulnerability thing he's got going for him. And the forcefield for that matter.>>
well, he could always do the same thing onslaught did (i'm gonna make an assumption for this debate since prime's power is all speculation anyway and say prime is a lot more powerful than onslaught) and simply reach into him and take out the gem. that might hamper the force field. besides that, his invulnerability has one very obvious limit: cytorrak's power. if prime is as powerful as many believe (and considering strange has done very well against cytorrak in cyt's own realm) not hard to imagine him being more powerful than cytorrak is and hence beyond the effects of his power. or he could do what wonderwoman did and simply cut off his helmet and then crush him with his supposed psionic power. prime is supposed to be by FAR the greatest of the dynasty - he GRANTED all the others their power and is viewed in the 853rd century as a god.
IF you believe prime to be as powerful as some say he is, juggs and his 'force field' would be next to nothing for him to deal with.
if you don't believe the speculation (or if you're not impressed with the ease with which prime crushed solaris - a villain who was killing ALL the greatest heroes of the 853rd century when they attacked him simultaneously) then nothing anyone says will convince you.
Yeah, the UNIVERSE WORSHIPPED SUPERMAN
THEY WORRRSHHHHIPPPPED HIM
Martian Manhunter became a living planet
Wonder Woman could erase people from time.
Hourman was a robot with The Worlogog, which put him in control of aspect of the Universe and it's time-stream, and side-streams.
Supermans children all had crazy powers, and most of them spank our moden day heros like children.
And they worshipped him like a god.
And he came out and defeated a being that existed for the last several thousand years, terrorizing the universe, with only a spare thought.
<<Yeah, the UNIVERSE WORSHIPPED SUPERMAN
THEY WORRRSHHHHIPPPPED HIM
Martian Manhunter became a living planet
Wonder Woman could erase people from time.
Hourman was a robot with The Worlogog, which put him in control of aspect of the Universe and it's time-stream, and side-streams.
Supermans children all had crazy powers, and most of them spank our moden day heros like children.
And they worshipped him like a god.
And he came out and defeated a being that existed for the last several thousand years, terrorizing the universe, with only a spare thought.>>
so, are you saying he might be able to overcome juggy's force field?
😄
Originally posted by leonidas
<<How would he crush him? He can't be damaged? That whole invulnerability thing he's got going for him. And the forcefield for that matter.>>well, he could always do the same thing onslaught did (i'm gonna make an assumption for this debate since prime's power is all speculation anyway and say prime is a lot more powerful than onslaught) and simply reach into him and take out the gem. that might hamper the force field. besides that, his invulnerability has one very obvious limit: cytorrak's power. if prime is as powerful as many believe (and considering strange has done very well against cytorrak in cyt's own realm) not hard to imagine him being more powerful than cytorrak is and hence beyond the effects of his power. or he could do what wonderwoman did and simply cut off his helmet and then crush him with his supposed psionic power. prime is supposed to be by FAR the greatest of the dynasty - he GRANTED all the others their power and is viewed in the 853rd century as a god.
IF you believe prime to be as powerful as some say he is, juggs and his 'force field' would be next to nothing for him to deal with.
if you don't believe the speculation (or if you're not impressed with the ease with which prime crushed solaris - a villain who was killing ALL the greatest heroes of the 853rd century when they attacked him simultaneously) then nothing anyone says will convince you.
Believe me, if you can convince me, I will relinquish my support for Juggernaut. I'm not so close-minded that I can't see the truth.
But, one thing I know very well about Superman, is that magic is one of his strongest weaknesses. And I understand that Prime is beyond everything and all, but magic has always been a big weakness for him. And since Juggernaut basically is empowered by celestial magic itself, that right there gives him a slight advantage in that department.
And as for the Onslaught thing. Don't you think that's kind of a stupid comparison? Onslaught= Unimaginable powers and could basically do anything at all, Superman=has a buttload of powers but magically-reaching-into-someone-chest-to-pull-out-a-gem-isn't-one-of-them.
That whole thing is actually still under speculation, since when Onslaught did that, the gem wasn't even with/on/in Juggernaut. He had long ago chucked it out into space. So by showing that Onslaught could just reach into Juggy's chest and pull out a gem that's not there...well, I still dunno how to feel about that one. Use your own judgement.
I believe that Juggernaut's enchantments will hold up to Superman. Hell, (I know this is Prime, but still, it's mentionable), Juggy's taken multiple God blasts from Thor without flinching or really noticing at all. I have always seen Classic Juggernaut invulnerable to everything except psychic attacks. And (please, if I'm wrong, let me know), to my knowledge, Superman Prime has no such Psionic ability. If he did, why is he not then the ruler of the Universe? He could do anything he'd ever want.
That's my opinion on this.
let's preface this by saying prime's powers are mostly speculatory and as such mostly opinion based and hard to convince others of. with that . . .
<<But, one thing I know very well about Superman, is that magic is one of his strongest weaknesses. And I understand that Prime is beyond everything and all, but magic has always been a big weakness for him. And since Juggernaut basically is empowered by celestial magic itself, that right there gives him a slight advantage in that department.>>
even current supes's resistance to magic is being downplayed of late. the weakness was given to pre-c supes so he wouldn't be unbeatable. post-c supes isn't as powerful and so doesn't have the need of taht weakness as much as in the past. this from a superman editor (can't recall his name . . .) not only that, the gl ring would entirely negate that weakness even if, as you hypothesize, it still exists.
<<And as for the Onslaught thing. Don't you think that's kind of a stupid comparison? onslaught= Unimaginable powers and could basically do anything at all,>>
i'll disagree here. i admit onslaught was powerful, but ultimately he coudn't even beat the small group of heroes assembled against him. in contrast, solaris (whome prime crushed without effort) was defeating and killing ALL the greatest heroes in the 853rd century's universe and had been killing them for centuries. jla 1M alone had ridiculously crazy power. add all the others (including the cm of the 853rd century) and THAT is one hell of a feat by solaris.
<<That whole thing is actually still under speculation, since when Onslaught did that, the gem wasn't even with/on/in Juggernaut. He had long ago chucked it out into space. So by showing that Onslaught could just reach into Juggy's chest and pull out a gem that's not there...well, I still dunno how to feel about that one. Use your own judgement.>>
however he did it, he still did it. and again, i feel if one is beyond cytorrak, one is beyond his power. i don't think it much of a stretch to say prime could well be far beyond cyt. and he took godblasts, true, but thor also negated the force field on one occasion with mjollnir. perhaps a gl ring backed bby the man with the universe's greatest will, could do likewise? and a much more mundane overshadowing of jugg's powers - war hulk was able to stop him and push him back. if warhulk could overcome jugg's power, again, i don't find it unlikely prime could do the same.
<<And (please, if I'm wrong, let me know), to my knowledge, Superman Prime has no such Psionic ability. If he did, why is he not then the ruler of the Universe? He could do anything he'd ever want.>>
again speculation, but even current supes has some access to mental powers: <<Torquasm-Vo
This is an ancient Kryptonian discipline that works by shifting the user's consciences into a higher (Theta) state so that he can fight an enemy in a purely mental realm. Superman has yet to fully master this. >>
it's not hard to say he would have mastered it by then. not only that, it has been stated in 1000000 that he gained a ton of NEW powers.
as for why he doesn't rule the universe, i suspect he could do so if he chose, but he IS superman . . .
all opinion of course, but i don't THINK any of it is TOO illogical.
🙂
Okay. I relinquish my support for Juggernaut. I suppose with all the buttload of powers that Superman Prime has, there's really no chance, not when he can negate magic now and such. (The War Hulk thing, by the way...he was powered by celestial tech, which negated Juggy's enchantments, making him unable to increase his strength, but he was still invulnerable. In that instance, I wouldn't say that Hulk stopped him, but the armor did).
But you have proven me wrong. Leonidas, you are fine debator, and I'm actually quite shocked (in a good way) to see that you weren't biting my head off about anything. That was really awesome of you. I just kept expecting it after each of my posts, like most people do when they disagree with me. But you kept your cool. That's the way to do it, my friend.
Kudos, my friend.
<<But you have proven me wrong. Leonidas, you are fine debator, and I'm actually quite shocked (in a good way) to see that you weren't biting my head off about anything. That was really awesome of you. I just kept expecting it after each of my posts, like most people do when they disagree with me. But you kept your cool. That's the way to do it, my friend.
Kudos, my friend.>>
and though i wouldn't really call what we had a 'debate' (more like just filling in some of my own opinion-based info and letting you decide for yourself) it was equally nice talking to someone who was not so married to their 'opinion' that they were willing to change it, or at least admit that MAYBE there IS another side to an issue.
pleasure, metal.
🙂