Apocalypse vs Juggernaut

Linkalicious

I read the comic where Hulk lifed 150 billion tons worth of mountain last night. He wasn't mindless....hell he wasn't even mad. 10 seconds before he's holding up like 4 good guys (Spidey included) and he's trying to run from Doom's bad guys.

He started getting weaker so Reed Richards started talking crap and he was able to maintain his leverage long enough to have Reed put together some device using....ummm....Spidey's web shooter, and someone elses equipment to hook up Human torch and i believe Captain Marvel to Iron Man's armor to blast through the mountain. Oh and Thor was laying his "heaviest blows' (according to his quote) into the mountain trying to dig them out, but it only sounded like a little tap from how deep they were. Bitchin comic really.

You're talking about Secret Wars aren't you? Well, Spiderman in that saga also defeated the entire X-Men team by 😕 HIMSELF 😘 - crazy huh? Hulk lifting a 150 billion tons WITHOUT getting mad is totally out of character. Hulk, when he's calm, is around Class 100 in strength or (translated) can LIFT 100 tons. He's going to have to get pretty f*cking mad to life 150 billion tons.

Turtle bulldonkey, it is NOT out of character. Is Hulk jumping out of the atmosphere "out of character?" It states that Savage Hulk can lift ***at least*** 100 Tons when calm. Exact words? No problem.

"Strength: This incarnation can lift approximately 100 tons as a minimum. This incarnation represents the epitome of the "madder he gets, the stronger he gets" and thus is for all practical purposes has no limit to the strength he can reach."

Notice it says AS A MINIMUM. Not ONLY 100 tons when calm. Your translation is incorrect.

Juggernautfan, you are incorrect period about Mindless Hulk...as usual.

Mindless Hulk is the one that waltzed through the entire - ENTIRE - Avengers such that Dr. Strange had no choice but to teleport him to another dimension.

MINDLESS Hulk was the one that punched the hole in Onslaught's armor when the entire combined might of earth's heroes could not doink it.

LoL @ your pyramid reference. The mountain RANGE that Hulk hoisted in Secret Wars was said to have "dwarfed the Andes." Do you personally know of any pyramids the size of a mountain RANGE?

Originally posted by Beyonder
[b] Well, Spiderman in that saga also defeated the entire X-Men team by 😕 HIMSELF 😘 -

I don't remember him beating them, I think he landed some hits and dodged around. It wasn't really a full fight, how many panels did it take? He mamaged to escape, then got part of his memories wiped. I don't think he could take the entire team.

I'm back home tomorrow, I'll look at it, I might be wrong. It's been a while since I've read it.

he can't even take wolverine they fought be for it was a tie

Originally posted by JuggernautFan
i didn't say that onslaught wasn't more powerful than juggernaut. i simply said he shouldn't have been able to do what he did to juggernaut. juggernaut has been in more issues than 20............... that was stupid. see what i mean. do you even have any juggernaut comics or are you debating off hear say information? let's look at war hulk for example. he physically overwhelmed juggernaut, but he couldn't hurt him. War hulk possessed power that was beyond comprehension. probably more so than onslaught himself. considering it's the most powerful version of hulk (including maestro) who basically defeated a whole slew of people. so in conclusion, just because onslaught possess greater power, doesn't mean that he could hurt juggernaut physically. it just doesn't make any sense considering even thors godforce couldn't hurt him, yet onslaught was diggin around in his chest casually with his fingers. talk about contradiction.

If you're gonna argue that onslaught being able to beat the crap out of juggy was improperly written and out of line for the description of the character, then i will also argue that juggernaut bein able to withstand thor's GEB was improperly written and pure crap. i agree that juggy is ALMOST invulnerable when it comes to physical attacks... but the GEB is magical in nature, and by all means it should have fried juggy away from his gem.

Originally posted by Irish Wolverine
I don't remember him beating them, I think he landed some hits and dodged around. It wasn't really a full fight, how many panels did it take? He mamaged to escape, then got part of his memories wiped. I don't think he could take the entire team.

I'm back home tomorrow, I'll look at it, I might be wrong. It's been a while since I've read it.

Took several panels. He made each and every one of them look SILLY. Nightcrawler is their quickest member and Nightcrawler was amazed by how quick Spiderman was. He casually backhanded Wolverine and knocked him about 10 feet.

Originally posted by Beyonder
[b]Linkalicious

I read the comic where Hulk lifed 150 billion tons worth of mountain last night. He wasn't mindless....hell he wasn't even mad. 10 seconds before he's holding up like 4 good guys (Spidey included) and he's trying to run from Doom's bad guys.

He started getting weaker so Reed Richards started talking crap and he was able to maintain his leverage long enough to have Reed put together some device using....ummm....Spidey's web shooter, and someone elses equipment to hook up Human torch and i believe Captain Marvel to Iron Man's armor to blast through the mountain. Oh and Thor was laying his "heaviest blows' (according to his quote) into the mountain trying to dig them out, but it only sounded like a little tap from how deep they were. Bitchin comic really.

You're talking about Secret Wars aren't you? Well, Spiderman in that saga also defeated the entire X-Men team by 😕 HIMSELF 😘 - crazy huh? Hulk lifting a 150 billion tons WITHOUT getting mad is totally out of character. Hulk, when he's calm, is around Class 100 in strength or (translated) can LIFT 100 tons. He's going to have to get pretty f*cking mad to life 150 billion tons. [/B]

Check in the Doc Ock vs. Wolverine thread. I state the same thing. In the Secret Wars Spiderman single handedly whoops the crap out of Wolverine, Storm, Rogue, Cyclops, Colossus, and Nightcrawler. They all admit to it in Secret Wars # when Hulk lifts the 150 Billion Ton mountain range that did in fact "dwarf the Andes" while he was NOT unusually angry. He didn't have any time to get angry, but at best you could say that the adrenaline that pumped through him when he saw that mountain range falling on him would suffice enough to fuel him like that.

The x-men and the Wasp are in Magneto's base and Magneto manages to piss of the Wasp. She is also further angered by the X-Men's unwillingness to help Captain America's group. The attacks and gets the better of Magneto, Wolverine, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, and Storm. And afterwards Wolverine says and I quote "First Spider-Man trashes us (Secret Wars #3)....Now the Wasp!! I've had it with gettin' dumped on my butt!"

He did get beat up by Spiderman, along with Cyclops, Colossus, Storm, Nightcrawler, and Rogue.

Stop thinking Wolverine always beats Spidey...because you ARE wrong.

yep.....spidey kicked wolvie's ass along with the rest of the x-men...wolverine is not in his class, stop being a fan boy....war hulk is not the strongest version of the Hulk, it is mindless hulk, the same on that dropped the avengers and cracked onslaught's armor....mindless hulk and juggernaut have never met...good thing, cuz some fans dont want to see jugs die.

well mindless hulk and juggernaut have met. hey met twice for sure that i know, but the comice i have where they met they only fought in one and it was before juggernaut had his full body armor. I'm sure juggernaut could beat any of the hulks on the right day. Though hulk may be stronger than juggy, juggs is still indestructable while in his armor. If wolverines blades cant get juggys helmet off i highly doubt hulk would be able to smash it off. But yeah Hulk would more than most likely conquer juggernaugt 7 times out of 10, as for A-poc, juggernaut does not stand a chance. Also, anyone o the x-men would destroy spiderman, excluding shadow cat and jubilee

I'm so sick of Juggernaut fan boys coming in here saying he's indestructable and he's invincible and all that crap. He isn't.

He's got super endurance, and his defense very very strong, but he would get chumped by the Hulk 10 out of 10 times...as long as Juggernaut didn't hit him from behind to start the fight. I've never ever seen or heard of Juggernaut even coming close to displaying the type of strength that Hulk has. Theoretically, the Hulk could throw Juggernaut to the damn sun with the strength he's displayed in his comics.

Originally posted by Never
Turtle bulldonkey, it is NOT out of character. Is Hulk jumping out of the atmosphere "out of character?" It states that Savage Hulk can lift ***at least*** 100 Tons when calm. Exact words? No problem.

"Strength: This incarnation can lift approximately 100 tons as a minimum. This incarnation represents the epitome of the "madder he gets, the stronger he gets" and thus is for all practical purposes has no limit to the strength he can reach."

Notice it says AS A MINIMUM. Not ONLY 100 tons when calm. Your translation is incorrect.

Juggernautfan, you are incorrect period about Mindless Hulk...as usual.

Mindless Hulk is the one that waltzed through the entire - ENTIRE - Avengers such that Dr. Strange had no choice but to teleport him to another dimension.

MINDLESS Hulk was the one that punched the hole in Onslaught's armor when the entire combined might of earth's heroes could not doink it.

LoL @ your pyramid reference. The mountain RANGE that Hulk hoisted in Secret Wars was said to have "dwarfed the Andes." Do you personally know of any pyramids the size of a mountain RANGE?

but war hulk lifted the pyramid off the ground on his own power, then simply tossed it through the air. the hulk that "lifted" the mountain actually had it dropped on him then simply braced it on his back. who's to say that another part of the mountain wasn't touching and he was only lifting half that weight, or even 1/4 of it. it was simply on his back and he braced it. war hulk is stronger, he doesn't have to get mad to get stronger, he simply summons 2 UNIVERSES worth of energy. i would say that 2 universes dwarfs any mountain range. hell all of the mountain ranges.

Originally posted by Linkalicious
I'm so sick of Juggernaut fan boys coming in here saying he's indestructable and he's invincible and all that crap. He isn't.

He's got super endurance, and his defense very very strong, but he would get chumped by the Hulk 10 out of 10 times...as long as Juggernaut didn't hit him from behind to start the fight. I've never ever seen or heard of Juggernaut even coming close to displaying the type of strength that Hulk has. Theoretically, the Hulk could throw Juggernaut to the damn sun with the strength he's displayed in his comics.

then you havn't read the hulk/juggernaut battles my friend. you are now the fanboy. because hulk has NEVER beaten juggernaut running off his own steam. hulk has his own comic book. hulk has had more appearances. hulk has had more time to prove how strong he can be. juggernaut does not have these same things. he makes cameo's in other peoples books. so really how can you say that hulk can beat juggernaut 10 out of 10 times when he has not done so to date?

Originally posted by Wynndar
yep.....spidey kicked wolvie's ass along with the rest of the x-men...wolverine is not in his class, stop being a fan boy....war hulk is not the strongest version of the Hulk, it is mindless hulk, the same on that dropped the avengers and cracked onslaught's armor....mindless hulk and juggernaut have never met...good thing, cuz some fans dont want to see jugs die.

but who's to say that war hulk cannot perform these same feats? juggernaut took on 7 exemplars. he defeated them. the same exemplars defeated nearly double (13) avengers. that is a testament to how powerful juggernaut can be. yet he was belittled by WAR hulk. i also don't believe he "dropped" the avengers, he was throwing them around and thor stated they were in too close quarters to be battling him because they were getting in each others way.

name a couple of comics where Juggernaut beats the Hulk and i'll start believing you. I am NOT a fanboy of the Hulk by any means. He's not one of my fav characters and other than the fact that i saw him lift (support) a 150 billion ton mountain i really don't like him much at all.

Show me one source that backs up your claim that he is invincible or inulnerable...or cannont feel pain. And then...i'll stop believing YOU to be the fan boy.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If you're gonna argue that onslaught being able to beat the crap out of juggy was improperly written and out of line for the description of the character, then i will also argue that juggernaut bein able to withstand thor's GEB was improperly written and pure crap. i agree that juggy is ALMOST invulnerable when it comes to physical attacks... but the GEB is magical in nature, and by all means it should have fried juggy away from his gem.

let me clear something up, you are comparing a battle that wasn't shown onslaught vs. juggernaut #1. and a battle that happened in the mind, onslaught vs. juggernaut #2. it was well within onslaughts power to do what he did. dig around in juggernauts chest to get a ruby that wasn't there (IN HIS MIND). who's to say that juggernaut couldn't have cracked onslaughts armor if he had physically fought him??? you? cause onslaught defeated juggernaut how he has been defeated so many times in the past. by using psionics.

Originally posted by Linkalicious
name a couple of comics where Juggernaut beats the Hulk and i'll start believing you. I am NOT a fanboy of the Hulk by any means. He's not one of my fav characters and other than the fact that i saw him lift (support) a 150 billion ton mountain i really don't like him much at all.

Show me one source that backs up your claim that he is invincible or inulnerable...or cannont feel pain. And then...i'll stop believing YOU to be the fan boy.

the only 4 times they have fought was inconclusive. hulk #172 inconclusive. hulk 402, juggernaut soundly thrashed the "smart" version of hulk. but used trickery to do so. still his own power though. hulk 404, 2 punchs from hulk then a psychic *spelling* backlash wiped out the avengers and juggernaut. and again in hulk 457 when hulk was upgraded by apocalypse to draw in 2 universes worth of energy. which is pretty unfair considering he was going up against 2 universes that was meant to battle celestials. but it wasn't hulks normal level of power. so i guess if you wanted to count the wins, it is 1 each, and 2 inconclusive battles. which surely doesn't prove that "hulk is stronger"

i also don't care that you don't "believe me" i have already stated that thors god force gave pause to a celestial and drove back galactus. it didn't even HARM JUGGERNAUT in the slightest. he has rarely been hurt in the past. usually when he is hurt it is because of magics or because he is in a weakened state. not because somebody can physically hurt him while he is running at his normal level of power. there is nothing to indicate that hulks punches could ever hurt juggernaut. because they havn't to date.

Originally posted by Linkalicious
name a couple of comics where Juggernaut beats the Hulk

Hulk #402. Juggernaut tricked The Hulk into thinking he was a normal person, and almost killed him.

Every fight they've had, something would happen to give one the advantage. When Hulk beat Juggernaut, he was War Hulk. When Juggernaut beat Hulk, he tricked him. I would love to see them have a fight where they don't get interupted or are given an advantage.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If you're gonna argue that onslaught being able to beat the crap out of juggy was improperly written and out of line for the description of the character, then i will also argue that juggernaut bein able to withstand thor's GEB was improperly written and pure crap. i agree that juggy is ALMOST invulnerable when it comes to physical attacks... but the GEB is magical in nature, and by all means it should have fried juggy away from his gem.

also, it's not out of character for somebody who is completely physically invulnerable to take the godforce. but it is out of character to have juggernaut run from onslaught considering he "doesn't run from a fight". also, it's politics they used juggernaut to elevate onslaught to give him credibility. because juggernaut had not been beaten physically before. it is not true to the character at all.

Originally posted by Irish Wolverine
Hulk #402. Juggernaut tricked The Hulk into thinking he was a normal person, and almost killed him.

Every fight they've had, something would happen to give one the advantage. When Hulk beat Juggernaut, he was War Hulk. When Juggernaut beat Hulk, he tricked him. I would love to see them have a fight where they don't get interupted or are given an advantage.

exactly what i would like to see, but stupid people say "hulk is stronger no matter what period crap" then you have the ones that say "hulk will win 50 out of 50 times" which is totally untrue also.

Sorry as an alleged "fan boy" of hulk...as so proclaimed by the Juggernautfanboy himself. What the hell is war hulk?