Men!

BackFire> I’ll be the first to admit that some representatives of my gender acts in a way that makes my toes curl! (Danish saying, dunno if it can be used in English). But again I think it’s a total oversimplification to claim that “the majority of women are too emotional to be considered logical or practical.”
Why are 99,9999% of all serial killers men? Why are 99,9999 % of paedophiles men? Neither are logical actions, nor are they practical.
Women have some cultural prejudices against them, and strong/independent/wilful women will quickly be called bitches or un-feminine! Women are as famous for saying one thing, but wanting another thing, as men are for not saying a darn thing, and letting US guess what’s up OR down. And feeling abandoned and un-cared for, when we do not guess, instinctively, what’s wrong. And then it’s our fault for not guessing that something MUST be wrong. So which is worse?

The state-of-the-world was mostly meant in a humorous way, in reply to the “Men rule”. But as long as traditional female values are considered inferior to traditional male values, I do not believe things will change for the better.
”They may be for a while, but once a month for about 4 days everything would go straight to hell in a handbag.”
😆
And men are capable of starting war over a pair of nice legs. Pfeh! Which is worse?

Ah, yes. My gender seems to enjoy all kinds of silly Ophrah/Ricki Lake/blahblah crap, but trust me: There’s a large group of us who thinks our brains begin to rot if we have to sit and watch it. Just as there – thankfully – are a large group of men, who doesn’t think watching sports is the greatest thing on the planet.

“Because as I said before, men or women, we're all human, and we're all going to screw up badly regardless.” Well, your views on humanity are rather grim, and I beg to differ. World-leaders (be they male or female – Margareth Thatcher springs to mind) seem to come from the wrong stock of people. But that is another discussion.

The www.maddox.xmission.com. quotes> 😆

Q: What do you call an intelligent, good looking, sensitive man?
A: A rumor.

He said , "Since I first laid eyes on you, I've wanted to make love to you really badly."
She said, "Well, you succeeded."

He said . "Two inches more and I would be king."
She said , "Two inches less, and you'd be queen."

On wall in ladies room "My husband follows me everywhere..."
Written just below it.... "I do not"

He said, "Shall we try swapping positions tonight?"
She said, "That's a good idea, you stand by the ironing board while I sit on the sofa and fart."

lol...u can dispute it all u want however the research is there to support me, trust me i know I take sociology and anthropology in University, what i said has all been acknowledge by studies, and statistics....men are known as "logical" thinkers" women are known as "interpretive thinkers", this means that a man will take information, use logic to see the facts and then from that produce a response. women on the other hand use emotion to interpret things, a women will base a decision not on the logical facts, but will base it on her emotional response to a specific situation. this is why men and women can get into some pretty heated arguments, and, its very frustrating for the man because he sees the facts to produce a solution, a woman uses her emotional response to the situation to produce a response, as such when a man says that a women is wrong in a specific argument, not only is it impossible for the man to "win the argument" because she sees it in from her own emotional perspective. and since this is what happens, to add to that when a man disputes a womans argument, to her, not only is he disputing her argument, but because she basis it on her emotions, to her, he is insulting her emotions as well, this makes the women get very upset, leaving the man to wonder what he said or did wrong....

You make an interesting point with the serial killers. I wonder why that is... Perhaps it's because men have deep instincts of being more dominating and in control then women do usually. So when that instinct goes heywire, that's when killers, rapists, and paedophiles are born. But that's just my guess.

Also, when I say all, or most women, I don't mean all, I just mean quite a few of them act the way I described, I'm well aware that many don't.

Thumbs up to everything you said though, I have to agree with alot of it.
Also, I'm glad you liked the maddox quotes. Yours were pretty humerous as well.

And yes, my view on humanity is very grim.

The Anomaly> What research is there to support you? A link would be good, which should be easy to find as you even study the subject. Kinda unlogical to assume I just take your word for it, huh? 😉
Once again – I’m living proof that over-generalisation gets in the way of clear-cut debates about gender-issues. I’ve been called insensitive by MEN!
”this means that a man will take information, use logic to see the facts and then from that produce a response.” Hm, so when I walk past the plumbers working in my appartment-bulding, and they whistle, they’ve taken the information ”female walks by”, used logic to see that fact, and produced the ”logical”(?) response ”whistle”? Shouldn’t these logical men realise, that we – women – don’t like that?
“women on the other hand use emotion to interpret things, a women will base a decision not on the logical facts, but will base it on her emotional response to a specific situation.”
Trust you me: I’ve never used emotions to solve a mathematical equation. Sometimes I make a decision based on what “feels” right. Sometimes on what I reason is the logically best approach. And you know what? I think men do the same.
>“its very frustrating for the man because he sees the facts to produce a solution, a woman uses her emotional response to the situation to produce a response, as such when a man says that a women is wrong in a specific argument, not only is it impossible for the man to "win the argument" because she sees it in from her own emotional perspective. and since this is what happens, to add to that when a man disputes a womans argument, to her, not only is he disputing her argument, but because she basis it on her emotions, to her, he is insulting her emotions as well, this makes the women get very upset, leaving the man to wonder what he said or did wrong....” (Use punctuation from time to time, please!)
Poor men, huh? 😄
Humans are, among things, also emotional beings. So what is wrong about using part of that which makes us human? Otherwise we’re just robots – And the way you write the above it sounds like you’ve got the odd idea that women cannot see the facts. Sounds like something from the late 19th century to be honest. Women can differentiate facts and emotions… But I agree that some women still sit in a tangled mess of both.

Backfire> See… what I find interesting about your reply is that you use the word instincts to describe the feelings of a psychopath. Perhaps we should debate the difference between emotions and instincts. I see the former as an evolution of the latter, as a tool to interpret and handle instincts –
We – Homo sapiens – spend more than a million years as hunters and collectors. We’ve spend around 12,000 years living in cities. So should we understand our basic instinctive/emotional/mental make-up we should perhaps ask how it evolved during the million of years running around with spears and baskets. Anthropologists haven’t found any signs of “class-differences” when we hunted and collected. All members of the kin-group seemed to have had a place (we’d call it work today I reckon). Whether or not men have a deeper instinct of dominating or controlling I can’t say… I’m more inclined to say that killers, rapists, paedophiles and so on is a sick response to living in “unnatural” conditions. If I don’t make any sense please let me know and I’ll try to explain it better.
It’s since we started urbanisation – settling in cities/villages – and inventing “property” (my house, my field, my woman, my cow) that crime seems to have started. When we hunted and collected we weren’t looking our for “number one”, but for the entire kin-group, as the survival of the group ensured survival of the individual. The “morals” of our distant ancestors were quite different from the ones we have today…
What we call adultery, infanticide etc. took place if it helped the group survive. Then we settled, and soon men were soldiers and women raised kids and took care of the house as they weren’t strong enough to BE soldiers and protect property.
So the controlling/dominating trait is probably fairly new in human history, if you understand what I mean.

unfortunatly..i have no internet links because i use textbooks, and books....internet sources are not valid enough for university...sorry to dissipoint..but if u need proof then apply to a university and take a sociology like i am doing....

Omega> unfortunately u just have proven what i said as well.....of course in math u cannot use emotions to solve an equation.....again u look for a little detail and miss the larger picture..i might add that all information is based on stats and studies is in the general form...meaning that there are always anomalies in everything....however the findings are based on the majority to come up with proper results..as such u can always argue that yes..perhaps not all women behave in this way..and yes perhaps not all men do either, but the majority of them do (and i might also add that a majority can be 51%) so in a sence i agree with u omega..not all statistics are written in stone, but that doesent mean that they are false...because if they were false then they wouldent be statistics would they... 😉

omega> and i apologize for the lack of punctuation..but i enjoy not using it sometimes..i have to read over papers that i hand in to my professors like 800 times before i hand it in..so i tend not to read or care about it in a place like this. 😉

as well u said that "i make it sound like women cant see the facts", im sorry if i confused u omega...women can see the facts just as well as men do...but instead of using a more logical (robot approch as u called it) they take the facts and use emotion to inturpurite whatever it is they are inturpriting.....this doesnt mean that women are incapable of logic, and it doesent mean that men are incapable of emotion....yes..both male and female use a combonation of both to make a desision, but, men lean more towards "the robot approch" where as women are more towards the emotional approch, even u agreed that "some women still sit in a tangled mess of both". men do not have this to near the same degree....give me a few days and ill try to see if i can get some information to u...though it might be hard because im not in school right now....summer...school ended a few weeks back...but i might have some notes...

The Anomaly> Thank you, but I think degrees in physics and mathematics are enough for me. A very unlogical reply you gave there: You can’t give me ONE single on-line resource, so instead I have to STUDY the same thing you do??? You’re a poor communicator if I have to study sociology for YOU to explain and/or prove things to me.

So by proving to you that I do not always use emotions to solve problems, I “look for a little detail and miss the larger picture”? 😄
You’re proving yourself wrong now. You’re using ONE person – disproving your generalisation (namely me) – to claim proof of your own assertion. Now if THAT is logic then I am Spock. Or am I an anomaly??
You seem to’ve been so fixated on the large picture, that you missed the fact that I – myself – stated that I do know women who seem incapable of seeing beyond emotions to a point where it gets in the way of rationality. But I know more women who acts with reason and logic just as you claim men do.
I do not say the statistics you refer to a wrong. But they’re probably (looks at your tag) Canadian or American. And there is a difference – culturally – between Europe and the US (bigger than we think actually) and between Europe and Canada.

“omega> and i apologize for the lack of punctuation..but i enjoy not using it sometimes..”
So you’ve made an emotional (joy) decision not to use punctuation marks? 😄
(Now – that was supposed to be a joke).
Ah, thank you for clearing up the confusion. So if you say men (statistically) lean more towards the “robot”-approach can you explain why? Since men are NOT robots and as emotional as women, it’s in the decision-making process (correct me if I’m wrong) that you say the difference lies. Now that is interesting from an analutical point of view – perhaps we can even figure out where this difference comes from.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
lol...u can dispute it all u want however the research is there to support me, trust me i know I take sociology and anthropology in University, what i said has all been acknowledge by studies, and statistics....

Science seems to have been fascinated by women since ... always. Men have always tried to justify their superiority through science. Not so long ago it was believed that receiving an education would make women incapable of breast feeding their children. Women who expressed anger could be labelled hysterical and thus mad. Women were constantly perceived as an anormally, as patients, and this was done through science. Scientists still pops up from time to time, now saying it's been proven that men are the most intelligent gender, now it's the women. Science, research is marked by the surroundings, by it's time. we're still living in a patriarchal world, most researchers are still men. I can't help but thinking that this, in spite of the fact science has developed and we've developed, isn't irrelevant. Of course theres truth in those researches, but still it really isn't that long ago every little strange (unwanted) thing about women were explained by male scientists and doctors.

Well, obviously serial killers have something more going on then just instincts. I think that's just the very basic, dumb downed reason why serial killer and ect do what they do. Emotional problems are also obviously happening as well.

But I don't necessarily think that it's because of unnatural living conditions. Plenty of serial killers have a perfectly normal upbringing and they still end up doing what they do. Obviously, something is simply wrong in their heads.

Originally posted by BackFire
Well, obviously serial killers have something more going on then just instincts. I think that's just the very basic, dumb downed reason why serial killer and ect do what they do. Emotional problems are also obviously happening as well.

But I don't necessarily think that it's because of unnatural living conditions. Plenty of serial killers have a perfectly normal upbringing and they still end up doing what they do. Obviously, something is simply wrong in their heads.

Wow, this is quite a can of worms we've got here.
I'd like to begin by defending the brave woman who started this post that was subsequently labeled self-centered. Guys--don't EVER confuse egomania with a healthy sexual self-image. It's the confidence the woman has in herself that creates and embodies her sexual mystique. You guys probably don't even know it, but you're the prime beneficiaries of that. Duh.
Next, a brief response to just a couple replies that caught my eye. Ushgarak tried to argue (albeit unconvincingly) that man are subject to a lot more competitive sexual imagery than women, citing gay men's relationships as an example. That is total rubbish. I'm sorry, and I don't mean to be harsh, but women are objectified on a daily basis. Every single day, most of us are subject to unwanted and unsolicited innuendo, as well as being touched and leered at by various creeps that we encounter in your average day. Gay men engage in a unique relationship, engaging each other in an exaggeratedly overt sexual playfield.
There were many good points raised by you guys, however, and I think that maybe the most important and notable would be from Dave123, who stated that not every man fits into the one-task-one-track mindset. Of course, exeptions to the rule are the rule. I salute you guys for having the balls to stand up for your convictions and beliefs about a really dicey subject, especially when faced with the rebuttals of such strong-minded and obviously intelligent women. Thank you everyone, who participated in this, and I'm glad I ran across it, it was certainly a worthwhile topic, with convincing and clever arguments on both sides.

Line> That is also a valid point you bring up there. It wasn't until 1830-something, that the male-dominated medical world acknowledged that women have eggs and that they participate as much in the creation of a fetus as men do - until then women were merely carriers of the divine male sperm... (Damn, why do I suddenly hear Monthy Python in my inner ear???).
However The Anomaly is not claiming that women are anomalous. Merely that men and women (statstically) reason differently.
When I look around I'm inclined to agree. But there may be a reason WHY men and women appearantly reason differently. Centuries of oppression, and being viewed as sick/evil (look at the way muslim women have to dress) may still have left cultural traces. Many childrens books still talk of passive princesses and active princes.
Also - From talking to friends in the States it seems it is more culturally accepted for American women to argue with emotions than it is for European women.

BackFire> You and me both probably have no clue what goes on in the mind of serial killers or phaedophiles. But when I say unnatural I mean that our genetic make-up is still meant for hunter/collector life - we haven't had the time yet to evolve to our current living conditions.
Obviously - yes - something is wrong in the heads of these people. Something very wrong. But the point I was trying to make is that serial killers, rapists and phaedophiles are all men (the percetage of these being women is remarkably small). Men, who're NOT acting with logic or reason.

While I'll agree with you on that. But they're a small percentage of men.

BackFire> Oh, yes, I know they constitute a tiny percentage of the male population. If I didn't make that 100 % clear I'll do so now.
What is baking my noodle is that the criminals/psychopaths we refer to here are almost exclusively men - and held up against the image of the rational thinker, the logic-user this somehow doesn't compute.

Originally posted by The Omega

However The Anomaly is not claiming that women are anomalous. Merely that men and women (statstically) reason differently.
When I look around I'm inclined to agree.

I know. What I objected against ( I know I wasn't making myself particularly clear) was the blind faith in the researches that led to this conclusion. I know men and women reason differently, but when it comes to statistics it often varies how big this difference is. It depends on the researcher, how he/she takes on the job, how they interpret the results, etc. Therefore I think some research results shouldn't be regarded as the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Still I agree with you and Anomaly on this difference between men and women, and like you I think it has a lot to do with upbringing and what kind of (silent) expectations are directed towards the child.

Originally posted by The Omega
BackFire> Oh, yes, I know they constitute a tiny percentage of the male population. If I didn't make that 100 % clear I'll do so now.
What is baking my noodle is that the criminals/psychopaths we refer to here are almost exclusively men - and held up against the image of the rational thinker, the logic-user this somehow doesn't compute.

Indeed, but that is soley these particular men, and their illogical habbits can't be portrayed onto other men.

I still think that as a whole, men are probably more logical beings then women are. I'm not saying 100% of men are logical while 100% of women are illogical, but more along the lines of probably 65% of men are logical thinkers, while maybe 35% of women are.

However, this may be an age thing. I'm only 21 right now, and most of the women I meet right now, that are my age, are extremely illogical and emotional. The guys however, are fairly logical and rational. When I'm 40 and have talked to more older women, I may be singing a different tune.

I know many women have the ability to think logically, most simply do not.

BackFire> “As a whole”… I’m inclined to agree with you. The next question is, whether this is cultural or biological.
However thinking that the men in your age-group are logical and rational only seems to hold until a beautiful girl walks by. And to return to the discussion on who thinks more about sex – is this the behaviour of logical and rational beings (again – we’re being broad and general here for the sake of an argument).
I’m no attacking men – I’m not saying women are all more logical than men. I’m simply trying to figure out the differences, because I think (some) men are very strange indeed.

omega dog food lol

I agree Omega, throw a beautiful woman in front of hte most brilliant and logical man in the world, and he becomes a rambling hound dog. But that's a biological thing, since it's in a mans genes to hump all the women he possibly can.

Just for the hell of it, I'm going to go ahead and list all the illogical things I can think of that women do, then I'll do the same for men. Please keep in mind that I am indeed generalizing, I'm aware that not all women do all of these things, but many do.

Going to the bathroom in pairs. Just go take a piss and come back.

Buying a ridiculous amount of clothes and hardly wear most of them.

Buy different shoes for every possible type of occasion, even if it most likely won't even come up.

Asking a question with two possible answers while only being prepared for one. (Does this make me looks fat?) Then castrating the poor guy for answering honestly. If you are only prepared for one answer, don't ask the question. Being honest, I have dealt with this one many many times.

Wants to have equal rights, but only when it can benefit her.

Now we'll do men.

Get drunk and then claim they're ok to drive home.

Turn into apes when a good looking girl is near them.

Never ask for directions despite the fact that they're in the wrong state and obviously lost.

That's all I have time for right now..