Graviton vs. Magneto

Started by Never4 pages

Um, gravity is no more BASIC (which is the most POPULAR definiton of "fundamental"😉 than magnetism. EVERY planet in our solar system has a magnetic field save VENUS. Shit, gravity is not even a constant in our solar system, so..? A quote:

"Planetary magnetic fields thus seem to be the ***rule,*** not the exception, at least in our solar system."

http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/planetmg.htm

Now. Although I would bet MY money on Magneto, I see no need in downplaying Graviton's abilities (although he was not written as a global-level threat in WCA, and I admit that was ONE writer's interpretation). Here is another write-up from a different source:

Frank Hall has the superhuman ability to control gravitation. His power is so great as to nearly be immeasurable. He can increase and decrease gravity to a nearly unlimited number of objects at the same time, even while distracted. He has proven to control the gravity around objects of any mass, even particles of energy and objects slightly out of phase with reality. He can cause enough force to hold down the Asgardian god Thor. He can also form gravitic force bolts and force fields.

If Graviton can instantly increase/decrease Magneto's gravity; Magneto can instantly stop/reverse/accelerate/burst blood vessels in Frank's brain.

Fair is fair, no?

The question is not which force is the most basic (that’s for astronomers to decide, and if somebody thinks those things have been long agreed upon, think again), but which force is the most important. On a global, cosmic scale, it’s unquestionable gravity.

Without electromagnetic force there would be no life on Earth (or maybe life, but not as we know it Jim). I said that before.

But without gravity, there would be no Earth to begin with… or Jupiter… or Mars… or Venus… or a solar system… or galaxies…

Another reason why gravity is more “important” than electromagnetism, is that it’s everywhere in the universe !! A magnetic field, or any kind of field, obviously is not, otherwise it would not be called “field”. The electromagnetic fields are limited in range, gravity isn’t, though gravity is much weaker…

If Graviton can instantly increase/decrease Magneto's gravity; Magneto can instantly stop/reverse/accelerate/burst blood vessels in Frank's brain.

Fair is fair, no?

I suppose he can. I stated before that Magneto will probably beat Graviton. Magneto is the lethal and smart one, not the other guy. But what’s holding Graviton from throwing a mountain on Magneto by just thinking it ? Or from increasing the weight of Magneto’s helmet or clothes with a factor 10000, just by wanting it ? Or, even better, doing these two things at the same time.

Magneto will be crushed, literally…

But those kinds of things will never happen, cause writers don’t like these solutions.

Actually was addressing/questioning Arachnoid's opining that "gravity is a more fundamental and powerful force" - and by fundamental, I surmised that he meant "basic," hence my asking "how is it more fundamental (basic)."

No, magnetic fields are not universal, but I am willing to be that magnetism, in its myriad incarnations (magnetic fields, magnetic field lines, electromagnetic waves) is. Magnetism is nothing more than a force between electrical currents (or electrical charges in motion). Magnetism determines the shape of plasma (the sun is a big magnet, in other words). Virtually all matter in the universe is magnetized. Anywho...

Graviton is quite the butthole (as of late) as well. Magneto COULD shut down Graviton much more quickly than Graviton could toss a mountain his way. No clue how quickly he could increase his mass. Harry Leland's (The Black Bishop) talent is similar (mentally increase or decrease MASS), and more often than not he had to concentrate for a bit (for example, increasing Colossus' mass during the story arc when Wolverine stabbed Phoenix through the heart).

Point being if it boiled down to a first-strike encounter (boring, to say the least) they both possess the ability to knock each other out.

For once, we agree. Sort of.

Originally posted by Never
Actually was addressing/questioning Arachnoid's opining that "gravity is a more fundamental and powerful force" - and by fundamental, I surmised that he meant "basic," hence my asking "how is it more fundamental (basic)."

WHAT?! i did not post that. here it is.

ScarletSpider said

I would go with Graviton because Gravity just seems like a more fundamental and powerful force.

thats the second time you confused me with someone else.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
WHAT?! i did not post that. here it is.

ScarletSpider said

thats the second time you confused me with someone else.

No clue why that happened twice. My apologies.

not a problem Never. apology accepted.

After i have talked with a physic, now i can talk about this better.
The thing is, that gravity is a more basic force indeed, but elctromagnetism is a force more powerful then gravity, and when i say more powerful i mean much more powerful.
conclusion: Magneto wins

That's what I've been saying all along 🙂

because gravity is the most important factor in the entropy of our universe, and will eventually lead to the "big crunch" opposite of the big bang...i would have to go with gravity being more fundamental...magnetism is a wavelength of energy i think and just as fundamental as light or sound maybe...

fundamental yes, but stronger no. electromagnetism is much more stronger, we can conclude from here, that magneto power is more powerful then gravitation.
who-kid you were and are right, i just wasn´t 100% sure

Originally posted by norrin radd
The thing is, that gravity is a more basic force indeed

Is this "physic" still in undergrad?

There are four basic or "fundamental" forces - gravity, strong, weak, and electromagnetic. One is not more "basic" than the other. There is no life without electromagnetic attraction (it is attractive and repulsive; gravity, only attractive) betwixt electrons and protons.

There is also no life without gravity.

And yes, gravity is the WEAKEST of the four. By far. To the order of 10^39.

well maybe basic is not the word i was loking for, maybe not the correct word to express myself. but i agree with what you said, without electromagnetism there would not be life, but gravity is more(i don´t know the correct word) then electromagnetism, the two of them are important, but to form a planet for example probably gravity is the first thing needed and then electromagnestism, maybe in this descrition is more basic just because it cames first, or maybe what i´m saying is all rubish.
what i do have certain is that electromagnetism is a much more powerful force then gravity

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/forces.html

Yeah Arachnoid - before you posted that I was about to say that on a macro-scale, gravity is more important; however, on a micro scale, electromagnetism is more important.

Can't have life without planets (gravitational forces); can't have life without electromagnetism.

THAT is why I said that one is not more "fundamental" than the other.

Well, Magneto is potentially a personified example of the Grand Unified Theory, which was what i was saying earlier, I just had forgotten the name for it.

Powers: Graviton can mentally manipulate the particles of gravitational force for which he is named, increasing or decreasing the force of gravity on any person or object, or applying that force in more complex ways for flight, manipulation of objects and force fields. In effect, he is one of the most powerful humans on Earth.

Graviton possesses the ability to mentally manipulate gravitons (that carry the attractive, gravitational force between atomic nuclei), enabling him to control gravity. He can surround any object or person including himself with gravitons and anti-gravitons (particles similar to gravitons but with opposite charge and spin), thus increasing or decreasing the Earth's pull of gravity upon it. By decreasing the pull of gravity beneath him, he can fly at any speed or height at which he can still breathe. By increasing the pull of gravity beneath his opponents, he can pin them to the ground, having made them too heavy to move, or cause sufficient gravitational stress to impair the normal functioning of the human cardiovascular system. He can also cause an inanimate object (such as a 1-foot diameter rock) to radiate enough gravitons to give it its own gravitational field, able to attract nearby matter and energy.

By rapidly projecting gravitons in a cohesive beam, he can generate a force blast with a maximum concussive force equivalent to the primary shockwave of an explosion of 20,000 pounds of TNT. He can also create a gravitational force field around him capable of protecting him from any concussive force up to and including a small nuclear weapon.

Graviton can exert his gravitational control over a maximum distance of 2.36 miles from his body. Thus, the maximum volume of matter he could influence at once is 6.88 cubic miles. He once exercised this control by lifting into the air an inverted conic frustum-shaped land mass whose uppermost area was 4 miles across, and causing it to fly as though it were a dirigible. He can also erect a gravitational force-field of similar proportions. (Graviton can perform as many as four separate tasks simultaneously. (He has not only lifted a 4 mile wide land mass as high as cloud level, but he has also surrounded himself with a force-field, gravitically held most of the Avengers against a slab of rock, and projected force-bolts at Thor all at the same time.) Graviton can use his power at maximum capacity for up to eight hours before mental fatigue significantly impairs his performance, and considerably longer (up to eighteen hours) if he conserves his energy during that

I add to this, that:
During his 2nd encounter with the Thunderbolts, he lift an enormous piece of land and keep flying in the sky, claming it was hiw own realm, the "Sky Island", and the same time, he grant hundred of people to fly, and fight with the Thunderbolts wiping them out with ease.

During his 3rd encounter with the Thunderbolts, he was going to manipulate the surface of the continents and give them the shape of his face, read with attention, manipulate the continents.He also prevent the arrive of all the super heroes through holding them up into the sky and rending them unconscious with his control over gravity.He was finally beaten from the T-Bolts cause he give them the chance to get near him.Just cause he underrate his enemies.

All this just to say, Graviton is powerful than Magneto, and he can win this match fast and easy.

I was wondering where this battle might be on the board. I think most of the people here have done a great job in explaining the physics behind it. In the end, I need not go into any great details, and I think most people already know my prediction on this fight. But to summarize, there is nothing that Graviton can do to Magneto that Magneto can't immediately undo, because he wields a far more powerful force than Graviton does. Moreover, he wields it far more fundamentally. Magneto creates and controls EM energy. Graviton doesn't create or control gravity - he controls gravitons, which isn't the same (the equivalent would be Magneto controlling photons). Gravy is limited to the gravitons available. And gravitons actually yield more readily to EM energy than to gravitic energy. Magneto could beat Graviton at his own game.

Not a good matchup for Graviton.

Originally posted by demigawd
I was wondering where this battle might be on the board. I think most of the people here have done a great job in explaining the physics behind it. In the end, I need not go into any great details, and I think most people already know my prediction on this fight. But to summarize, there is nothing that Graviton can do to Magneto that Magneto can't immediately undo, because he wields a far more powerful force than Graviton does. Moreover, he wields it far more fundamentally. Magneto creates and controls EM energy. Graviton doesn't create or control gravity - he controls gravitons, which isn't the same (the equivalent would be Magneto controlling photons). Gravy is limited to the gravitons available. And gravitons actually yield more readily to EM energy than to gravitic energy. Magneto could beat Graviton at his own game.

Not a good matchup for Graviton.


Graviton can just simply throw at Magneto huge things, like buildings, and meanwhile, enhancing the gravity around Maggy at the point he would die under the pressure.

All of which is well and good. So while Graviton is looking for things to throw at Magneto, Magneto gives Graviton an aneurysm.

Like I said, Magneto can't really control gravity directly, but he can wrest control of gravitons from Graviton, since gravitons have a charge. It would be a more interesting fight if Graviton could actually create and control gravitic energy. He can't. So he loses.