Originally posted by The Omega
Line> But what IS neutral councelling? If a psychologist an readily tell, that a young boy and girl would be better off if they didn't have the child, should he/she not say so? If he/she can feel that the girl really wans to have the baby at age 17 no one can stop her. But what is she gonna do with her life? What career will she have? A great scientist may get lost there.
Sure, some people be able to handle kids AND education. But you need people made out of a special material.
Of course youngsters should be taught about abortions in school - just as contraception. There is no stopping hormones, no stopping inctincts... The kids need to know what to do to avoid getting pregnant and what to do if an accident happens.
"It depends on maturity, personality, support, economical situation, etc."
I agree 100 % with you here.
Perhaps what I really want is that we're taught from we're young, that we need to plan for kids. That having a child is a great responsibility.
I've heard of people who council women on this matter. They help them see their situation from different perspectives to help them make up their mind without forcing their own view upon them.
A psychologist is a more personal councelor with a good knowledge of the person before him/her. If such a person should speak their mind I wouldn't feel as bad about it, as if it was a teacher in class telling them when and when not to have an abortion. I'm not saying teenagers shouldn't be taught about abortions, I just don't like the idea of teaching them when it's the right time, according to us, to have them done.
Lady van Tramp> Ah, good. Some agreement is a good starting point. And I readily agree with you, that none of us are experts on the matter. I brought this topic up, because to me it seems like people think it is a given right to procreate. And I’m not sure I agree – sure, as Line has pointed out, who should decide who should and shouldn’t have kids? And how should that decision be made?
And Creechur brought his own experiences into this debate, after arguing that it is our DUTY to have kids. With this point I strongly disagree considering the state of the world. Then he went on to claim, that anyone NOT a parent, should not participate in the debate. Having kids or not has nothing to do with whether or not someone can have an opinion on the matter. It’s like saying only people who has a relative on death-row may debate whether or not we should have capital punishment.
Spadesmamma> Don’t be so pessimistic. We, by being here on an Internet forum, people – from all over the world – conducting a debate (almost civilised) is a step in the right direction, don’t you think.
Sure – we can and will and do disagree. But eventually we may be able to find the root of the disagreement. See – people who already have kids may somehow feel “insulted” by the mere topic of this thread. NOT because they’re bad parents, but because I think parenting also consists of doubts, and confusion and hoping you’re doing the best. So anyone raising questions can become a target.
But debating – to me – is essential 🙂
Creechur> Did you run out of arguments so soon? Sad… 🙂 Would you at least have the courtesy of telling me what blood-lines you were talking about back there on page… uhrm 2, I think?
And Shellie’s example proves my point. Poor kids.
Line> It IS difficult. Because you’re right, that no one can say “NOW is the right time for miss X” to become a mother. But look at Shellie’s example. Perhaps counselling would’ve stopped the couple from having kids, when they’d rather smoke pot than take care of the children. I see great parents around me, who take care of their children, and do the best they CAN. But some do NOT.
I guess there’s no easy way here. But if we agree on the education part, then we’re in as much agreement as I think we can get. 🙂
Originally posted by The OmegaLine> It IS difficult. Because you’re right, that no one can say “NOW is the right time for miss X” to become a mother. But look at Shellie’s example. Perhaps counselling would’ve stopped the couple from having kids, when they’d rather smoke pot than take care of the children. I see great parents around me, who take care of their children, and do the best they CAN. But some do NOT.
I guess there’s no easy way here. But if we agree on the education part, then we’re in as much agreement as I think we can get. 🙂
We pretty much agree on the entire counseling and education-matter, so yeah, let's agree we agree on that and let's agree on disagreeing where we do not agree (fantastic word I must say 😄 )
"Creechur> Did you run out of arguments so soon? Sad…"
If by 'sad' you mean 'bored', then you are right.
"Would you at least have the courtesy of telling me what blood-lines you were talking about back there on page… uhrm 2, I think?"
No. Remember, us yanks have no courtesy. Besides, Ive already stated thet you will get no more fodder from me. Call it a victory if it makes you feel better.
At this point, I'm more interested in Von Doom's name change that this redundant topic. Buh-bye.
Von Doom?
Either a little rude or a totally innocent play on my name change. Or nothing to do with me at all and I'm just jumping to conclusions. 😛
And no probs with the support thing, I happened to agree with a lot of what you suggested, and was quite moved when you described the joy you get from spending time with your child.
KMC gets ugly sometimes, but Von Doom will continue to fight the good fight 🙄
😉
You hit the nail on the head.
I called myself Lady Syrenna von Tramp a while back in the Gent's Club, Peloquin (cool guy) was going all James Bond, tuxedo and rose giving, so I decided to role play as the hostess of the ball. Ergo Lady SvT.
Unfortunately, the full name was too long, so I dropped the first name. Sophis, I dig that compliment 😮
Finti, you are joking right?
You mean to tell me that we can't write a single post to another member unless it's exactly relevant to the thread??
That's ridiculous and you know it, isn't this forum supposed to be a place where we can meet and interact with other, like-minded people? So, by your theory, we have to immediately go to PMs as soon as it looks like we're going to get to know someone?
Sorry, but that is just ludicrous.........
You're half right Lady. Basically, here in the GDF, it's looked down upon to turn threads into personal chat rooms, that's what the OTF is for.
A post or two chitchating is fine, as long as it doesn't go on for to long. When the chit chats change the entire topic of a thread, that's when problems arise.
That's ridiculous and you know it, isn't this forum supposed to be a place where we can meet and interact with other, like-minded people? So, by your theory, we have to immediately go to PMs as soon as it looks like we're going to get to know someone?I dont bloody carte what you think, this is a general discussion forum not YOUR personal chit chat BS
By 'clear' I didn't mean blunt. Or rude. Or simply arrogant. You covered all those.
I wanted to know, as if I need to reiterate, why we are not permitted to perhaps chat at least a little via posts. More often than not it leads to PM anyway, I really don't think it necessary for you, or any other Mod, to point us in that direction.
Why do you keep picking particular sentences from my posts and then writing absolutely nothing in return?
Are we having a discussion, or are you simply trying to demean me?
Not one other Mod has complained, only you, and I think we're currently doing exactly what you ordered Creechuur and I not to do, chatting 'BS'.