At the end of the manga Alucard gains Quantum Reality Manipulation, which basically means he is essentially immortal, he exists if he believes he does.
However, theoretically a mental attack should work, if one were able to make him believe he no longer existed, he would die. He has never really shown particularly great mental powers.
Also, he still lacks the means to really harm even someone Mercenary Tao level IMO.
Originally posted by NemeBro
At the end of the manga Alucard gains Quantum Reality Manipulation, which basically means he is essentially immortal, he exists if he believes he does.However, theoretically a mental attack should work, if one were able to make him believe he no longer existed, he would die. He has never really shown particularly great mental powers.
Also stuff like Tsukihime concept attacks should work.
If Tohno Shiki or Ryougi Shiki stabbed him in a point of destined death (they have the ability to see death of a being in the form of lines and points), he would die. Ryougi especially would be well-suited, having killed things with no physical existence before.
Astner
Depends on what dictionary you're using, the ones I've seen translates it as infinite power.
Yea, if one's talking mere infinite power, then lots of beings have it.
Originally posted by NemeBro
At the end of the manga Alucard gains Quantum Reality Manipulation, which basically means he is essentially immortal, he exists if he believes he does.However, theoretically a mental attack should work, if one were able to make him believe he no longer existed, he would die. He has never really shown particularly great mental powers.
Also, he still lacks the means to really harm even someone Mercenary Tao level IMO.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
He's omnipotent for all relevant intents and purposes.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's impossible to prove any character is truly omnipotent.
Furthermore by your line of reasoning, you could declare Goku at the end of Dragon Ball GT omnipotent. But it isn't a consistent argument as it's leaning on the following fallacies: Ad Ignorantiam, Ad Infinitum, and Red Herring.
Originally posted by Astner
No. Arguing for Tenchi over the Living Tribunal, is nothing short of a display of ignorance.
You misunderstand. I mean that, within the context of the story, he is omnipotent and should be treated as such.
While true, it's rather easy to prove that they aren't. Apply any of the omnipotence paradoxes.
Those don't really apply as a truly omnipotent being would be able to defy logic.
Furthermore by your line of reasoning, you could declare Goku at the end of Dragon Ball GT omnipotent. But it isn't a consistent argument as it's leaning on the following fallacies: Ad Ignorantiam, Ad Infinitum, and Red Herring.
No you couldn't, because he has no feats at the end of GT, no powerscaling, and there's no evidence that absorbing the Dragonballs even did anything to change his powerset. After all, the power of the Dragonballs is known to have quite a few limitations.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You misunderstand. I mean that, within the context of the story, he is omnipotent and should be treated as such.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Those don't really apply as a truly omnipotent being would be able to defy logic.
Furthermore the abilities you associate with omnipotence, along with the term itself, hasn't been used to illustrate Kami Tenchi.
Yes, the Chousin labeled themselves as omnipotents, but Kami Tenchi never was.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No you couldn't, because he has no feats at the end of GT, no powerscaling, and there's no evidence that absorbing the Dragonballs even did anything to change his powerset. After all, the power of the Dragonballs is known to have quite a few limitations.
Then we have the instance of Kami Tenchi "almost forgetting" to tell Tenchi that the child he was with before their encounter was safe. Which for his entire 3 minute appearance in the series is a pretty severe flaw.
You're not justifying your case, you're literally arguing for the application of the lack of evidence, which in itself is fallacious.
Originally posted by Astner
Just because he's seemingly unsurpassed in the series doesn't mean he's unsurpassable.
You're right. If some new uber being from an even higher dimension appears that's confirmed to be stronger than Tenchi, then Tenchi can't be treated as omnipotent. Of course, this applies to any supposedly "omnipotent" being in fiction.
And that's red herring, any outcome which conclusion have illogical steps in-between is inconclusive.Furthermore the abilities you associate with omnipotence, along with the term itself, hasn't been used to illustrate Kami Tenchi.
Yes, the Chousin labeled themselves as omnipotents, but Kami Tenchi never was.
Which is the entire point, and one of the reasons why the entire omnipotence debate is pointless and will never get anywhere. Once you accept that a truly omnipotent character would be able to ignore logic, it's impossible to proceed with an argument.
Kami Tenchi barely have any feats himself, nor do we know anything about him aside from that he's an entity greater than the Chousin.
He was the one who created the Chousein and the entire Tenchiverse
You could further argue that Tenchi as a human was severely limited and that certain events could've gone smoother.
Well of course. Human Tenchi is only the avatar of Kami Tenchi who really didn't know how to use his powers for most of the series.
Then we have the instance of Kami Tenchi "almost forgetting" to tell Tenchi that the child he was with before their encounter was safe. Which for his entire 3 minute appearance in the series is a pretty severe flaw.
This again? laugh: That's obviously a joke scene/casually making conversation. After all, he was pretty whimsical when we saw him. Taking something like that seriously is just inane.
You're not justifying your case, you're literally arguing for the application of the lack of evidence, which in itself is fallacious.
No, I'm saying that omnipotence debates in general are stupid, as it's impossible to really prove anything or get anywhere with them, because omnipotence as a concept is so estranged from the real world logic and experience of human beings.
Omnipotence is something that is virtually impossible to prove via feats, and should be avoided during a debate like this.
Theoretically, for omnipotence to be proven, you would need an infinite list of feats showing the omnipotent character's ability. Said list would have to contain every conceivable action known to man, and then have things in it that we couldn't even comprehend, meaning that you would need omniscience to even understand the list. Not only that, but no one in existence could ever read the list, because it would be infinite, and nothing in existence could contain all that information.
Basically, it boils down to this; Omnipotence is a claim, nothing more. It is a no-limits fallacy and completely unable to be proven by any means. At best, either you believe the source or you don't.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You're right. If some new uber being from an even higher dimension appears that's confirmed to be stronger than Tenchi, then Tenchi can't be treated as omnipotent. Of course, this applies to any supposedly "omnipotent" being in fiction.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Which is the entire point, and one of the reasons why the entire omnipotence debate is pointless and will never get anywhere. Once you accept that a truly omnipotent character would be able to ignore logic, it's impossible to proceed with an argument.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
He was the one who created the Chousein and the entire Tenchiverse
Originally posted by Endless Mike
This again? laugh: That's obviously a joke scene/casually making conversation. After all, he was pretty whimsical when we saw him. Taking something like that seriously is just inane.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, I'm saying that omnipotence debates in general are stupid, as it's impossible to really prove anything or get anywhere with them, because omnipotence as a concept is so estranged from the real world logic and experience of human beings.
In the end, "omnipotence" has more than one definition and isn't sufficient as proof. Neither is the position of being supreme, nor the position of being the demiurge (the uncaused cause).
Pardon my fanboyism but I still think Hao pretty much has it. Alucard gain virtual omnipresence by making schrodinger his familiar, however he did lose the majority of his power by killing off the millions he previously had.
Hao can soul absorb by just looking at someone if memory serves me right and can create scale models of cosmic events like comets, meteors, supernovas, and blackholes; although not on the power of the actual even they still pack a punch. Courteous of the Great Spirit he's pretty much god.
However its hard to explain the scope of his power due to the fact that he would lose it every other shaman tournament and the Great Spirit in itself has many untouched concepts. I'm being an fanboy but I think Hao pretty much tops the anime/manga power charts.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Pardon my fanboyism but I still think Hao pretty much has it.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Alucard gain virtual omnipresence by making schrodinger his familiar, however he did lose the majority of his power by killing off the millions he previously had.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Hao can soul absorb by just looking at someone if memory serves me right and can create scale models of cosmic events like comets, meteors, supernovas, and blackholes; although not on the power of the actual even they still pack a punch. Courteous of the Great Spirit he's pretty much god.
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Omnipotence is something that is virtually impossible to prove via feats, and should be avoided during a debate like this.Theoretically, for omnipotence to be proven, you would need an infinite list of feats showing the omnipotent character's ability. Said list would have to contain every conceivable action known to man, and then have things in it that we couldn't even comprehend, meaning that you would need omniscience to even understand the list. Not only that, but no one in existence could ever read the list, because it would be infinite, and nothing in existence could contain all that information.
Basically, it boils down to this; Omnipotence is a claim, nothing more. It is a no-limits fallacy and completely unable to be proven by any means. At best, either you believe the source or you don't.
Well said.
Originally posted by Astner
While spiritual related feats aren't quantifiable--due to their very nature, and varying assessments--astronomical feats are, and aren't on the level of cosmological feats such as: destroying universes.
And there goes my fanboy pride. I thought the model black hole would give Hao something to compete with.But if there are really some universe busters in anime/manga publication I'd love to hear about them.
Come to think of it now, has anyone mentioned Dark Schnider? Personally I barely know about the guy but some other threads I've read say he can give the Beyonder a run for his money; I doubt it but I can be proven wrong can't I?
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
And there goes my fanboy pride. I thought the model black hole would give Hao something to compete with.But if there are really some universe busters in anime/manga publication I'd love to hear about them.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Come to think of it now, has anyone mentioned Dark Schnider? Personally I barely know about the guy but some other threads I've read say he can give the Beyonder a run for his money; I doubt it but I can be proven wrong can't I?
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
And there goes my fanboy pride. I thought the model black hole would give Hao something to compete with.But if there are really some universe busters in anime/manga publication I'd love to hear about them.
One of the big ones is from Slayers/Lost Universe, the Lord of Nightmares.
The main character of Slayers, Lina Inverse, is a sorceress, and at one point it's revealed that if her ultimate spell, the Gigaslave, goes out of control, it will destroy the universe, because it calls upon the Lord of Nightmares who created the universe and in fact the universe rises out from an infinite sea of chaos, that sea being the Lord of Nightmares, or L-sama for short.
Lost Universe is another universe inside the LoN with it's own series.