Originally posted by Galvaclaw
It's worth noting that the size of the known universe (not the whole universe) is 4 exp 17 the size of the moon or 0.4 billion,billion. The power levels stopped in the millions I'm thinking Goku is a bit far off being at the top.It takes a billion times the energy of planet destroying to produce a supernova. So going by powerlevels alone there's no evidence Goku is even a solar system buster. Assuming power levels are linear Goku would need a power level in the trillions to bust a solar system.
By the end of dbz his powerlevels was in the billions (could be trillions) but thats not the case. Cell stated that he was going to destroy the solar system, since dbz characters have the abilities of reading powerlevels they didnt call it as a bluff and gohun countered his attack with more power.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Because it is subjective, the power leveling difference is extremely random, and in many cases, either exessive, or underpowered.For example, Vegeta when he first arrived on Earth, was stated twice as being able to destroy a planet at 19,000. (In the anime, he does this with a finger beam like nothing in a filler episode, so take it in discretion.) Yet Frieza in his initial state used one of his surefire techniques to do it, and still needed a coreshot to do it, and his power was roughly 500,000.... Thats a massive miscalculation... Either Vegeta was more proficient in blowing away planets than someone who is several DOZEN times his power (Absurd to the max), Frieza is considerably WEAKER than the stats would indicate (Also absurd, considering how afraid Vegeta was of Frieza), or the stats are as inconclusive as they look.
You do know that before frieza attempted to blow the planet namek up he was hit with a city size spirit bomb, got the hell beat out of him by a super saiyan goku and lets not count what happened before all of that.
He was extremely weakened, he was even breathing heavy before his attack. That the reason planet namek wasnt destroyed, he might didnt put enough power into it or hell, he might didnt have enough power. Super sayain goku was brushing off all of his attacks like it was candy.
Originally posted by Astner
Wich is way off considering that Freeza 100% had 120,000,000 according to the Daizenshuu.The cyborg saga takes place 3 years after Freeza arrived on earth. Meaning that Goku who now could control his SSJ state had further 3 years to train. Then add the time the fighters spent in the RoTaS, and there you go.
The Namek saga lasted for less than a month, and Goku's base power went from 8,000 to 2,500,000.
Meh the reason for that was Goku sustained serious injuries 3 times during that his fight with Vegeta,on his ship when the gravity malfunctioned and after the fight with Ginyu which is the reason for his leaps in power not training,the only time they get huge leaps in power is from either transformations or heavy injuries for sayians anyways.Plus I highly doubt its much more than 1.2 anyways.
Originally posted by carver9
By the end of dbz his powerlevels was in the billions (could be trillions) but thats not the case. Cell stated that he was going to destroy the solar system, since dbz characters have the abilities of reading powerlevels they didnt call it as a bluff and gohun countered his attack with more power.
Nothing more than bs hyperbole from a character well known to boast and lie.Low billions at best.
Originally posted by shane8874
Well then he can take vegetas big bang attack lol..I am just compering powers or trying to. Arnt all anime universes different or are they not because that would effect the power leves of who we are comparing?[B]Wait and who in DBZ is not faster than light....
[/B]
All of them not one single character in DBZ is FTL without IT.
Originally posted by Alucard25
Meh the reason for that was Goku sustained serious injuries 3 times during that his fight with Vegeta,on his ship when the gravity malfunctioned and after the fight with Ginyu which is the reason for his leaps in power not training
Originally posted by Alucard25
the only time they get huge leaps in power is from either transformations or heavy injuries for sayians anyways.Plus I highly doubt its much more than 1.2 anyways.
Piccolo also confirmed that Vegeta bluffed when he said he could take on Dr. Gero after #19.
So it's safe to say that Piccolo after these three years was far above SSJ Goku (at Namek) who was above 100% Freeza.
100% Freeza: 120,000,000
Piccolo (Namek) ≈ 2nd form Freeza = 1,060,000
So Piccolo got at least (depending on Vegeta's result it could be way higher) a hundred times more powerful as well.
I'd suggest that at the end of Cell saga they were in the trillions.
I would have to a
Raditz vs. Farmer:
Raditz: 1,200
Farmer: 5
Raditzu vs. Goku & Piccolo:
Raditz: 1,200
Piccolo (with weighted clothes): 322
Piccolo (without weighted clothes): 408
Piccolo - Makankosappo (1st Try): 1,330
Piccolo - Makankosappo (2nd Try): 1,440
Goku (with weighted clothes): 334
Goku (without weighted clothes): 416
Goku - Kamehameha: 924
Gohan: 1 to 1,307 (power changes w/emotions)
After The Battle:
Master-Roshi: 139
Turtle: 0.001
Krillin: 206
Tien: 250
Yamcha: 177
Piccolo: 329
Z Warriors vs. Saibamen & Nappa:
Saibamen: 1,200
Yamcha: 1,480
Chouzu: 610
Tien: 1,830
Krillin (pre-battle): 1,083
Krillin (max): 1,770
Piccolo (pre-battle): 1,220
Piccolo (max): 3,500
Gohan (pre-battle): 981
Gohan - Masenko: 2,800
Nappa: 4,000
Goku vs. Vegeta & Nappa:
Goku: 5,000
Goku (powered up): 8,000
Goku - Kaioken x1: 12,000
Goku - Kaioken x2: 16,000
Goku - Kaioken x3: 24,000
Goku - Kaioken x4: 32,000
Nappa: 4,000
Vegeta: 18,000
Vegeta Oozaru: 180,000
Gohan Oozaru: 9,810 - 28,000
Frieza Saga:
Gohan & Krillin vs. Frieza's Thugs:
Gohan: 1,500
Krillin: 1,500
Frieza's Thugs: <500
Vegeta vs. Kiwi:
Vegeta: 24,000
Kiwi: 19,000
Zarbon & Dudoria vs. Namekian Fighters
Zarbon: 23,000
Dudoria: 21,000
Namekian Fighters: 3,000
Vegeta vs. Dudoria:
Vegeta: 24,000
Dudoria: 21,000
Vegeta vs. Zarbon (1st Time):
Vegeta: 24,000
Zarbon 1st Form: 23,000
Zarbon 2nd Form: 33,000
Vegeta vs. Zarbon (2nd Time):
Vegeta: 34,000
Zarbon 1st Form: 23,000
Zarbon 2nd Form: 33,000
Vegeta, Gohan & Krillin vs. Ginyu Force:
Krillin: "Over 10,000"
Gohan: "Over 10,000"
Gohan - Masenko: "Over 20,000"
Vegeta: "Almost 30,000"
Guldo: 10,000
Ricoome: 40,000
Goku vs. Ginyu Force:
Goku: 5,000
Goku vs. Jeise & Burter: Bursts of 60,000
Goku - Kaioken x1: 180,000
Jeise: 50,000
Burter: 45,000
Ricoome: 40,000
Ginyu: 120,000
Goku in Ginyu's Body:
Ginyu in Goku's Body: 23,000
Jeise: 50,000
Vegeta: 60,000
Krillin: 16,500
Gohan: 17,000
Nail vs. Frieza:
Nail: 42,000
Frieza: 530,000
Vegeta vs. Frieza (1st Time):
Vegeta: 120,000
Freeza (Form 1): 530,000
Freeza (Form 2): 1,000,000
Piccolo vs. Frieza:
Piccolo (merged with Nail): 800,000
Frieza (Form 2): 1,000,000
Frieza (Form 3): 2,500,000
Vegeta vs. Frieza (2nd Time):
Vegeta: 300,000
Freeza (Form 4 - 33%): 4,000,000
Goku vs. Frieza:
Frieza (Form 4 - 33%): 4,000,000
Frieza (Form 4 - 50%): 6,000,000
Frieza (Form 4 - 70%): 8,400,000
Frieza (form 4 - 100%): 12,000,000
Goku - Base Level: 300,000
Goku- Kaioken x10: 3,000,000
Goku - Kaioken x20: 6,000,000
SSJ Goku: 15,000,000
Goku's Levels As He Fights Freeza:
Goku Frieza
Kaiokenx10 33%
Kaiokenx20 33% (Short Time), 50% & 70%
Super Saiyan 70% & 100%
Future Trunks vs. King Cold & Cyborg Frieza:
King Cold: 13,000,000
Cyborg Frieza: 12,500,000
Future Trunks (Suppressed): 5
SSJ Future Trunks: 17,000,000
SSJ Goku: 20,000,000
ALL LEVELS AFTER THIS POINT ARE A GUESS!
In the mangas, Japanese series, and Daizenshuus, Toriyama NEVER listed or authorized any power levels after the Frieza Saga, as he felt they limited his ability to be flexible and creative with the outcome of battles. The following Power Levels are mearly a guess on my part. They are never listed in any of the series, manga or daizenshuu
gree but I mean thats just a guess.
Originally posted by Astner
The gravity never malfunctioned. He nearly did kill himself on his ship though and that might have boosted him. But he was aware of that, meaning he could undergo the same sort of training on earth. Zenkai is a part of training.Wrong. Piccolo was able to keep up with Dr. Gero before he merged with Kami--meaning that he was close to SSJ Vegeta's level after his training (you have to keep in mind that Vegeta also trained during the three years).
Piccolo also confirmed that Vegeta bluffed when he said he could take on Dr. Gero after #19.
So it's safe to say that Piccolo after these three years was far above SSJ Goku (at Namek) who was above 100% Freeza.
100% Freeza: 120,000,000
Piccolo (Namek) ≈ 2nd form Freeza = 1,060,000So Piccolo got at least (depending on Vegeta's result it could be way higher) a hundred times more powerful as well.
I'd suggest that at the end of Cell saga they were in the trillions.
Wrong the gravity machine did malfunction when the ship went through the storm and it kept raising the gravity wildly back and forth up to 100x badly injuring Goku to the point where he needed to crawl to get a senzu bean.Meh Gero and the other android never struck me as powerful considering how easily Goku was handling it even though being under the influence of the heart virus and Vegeta just straight up owned him and Vegeta was weakened by the other android's energy drain so Piccolo might have been close to a really weakened Vegeta,but even so that's just Piccolos word eh.
All in all I doubt Gero was even on the level of Frieza at 50% final form considering Gero had only gathered info up until the Saiyan Saga and had not factored in Super Saiyans into his estimates which is why he was so surprised and then makes a comment about it saying Piccolo should be one of the weaker ones since he had no idea he joined with Nail as his data didn't go that far,so he had only prepped himself based on old data that didn't included Piccolo joining Nail and Super Saiyan so yeah I doubt Gero was really all that powerful.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw It takes a billion times the energy of planet destroying to produce a supernova.
Actually the destruction of an earthlike planet is around 2.4e32j, and a supernova is on the magnitude of 1e44j, so it's more like a trillion times.
Well if BROLY could destroy a Galaxy then I'm sure that ssj 3 or ssj vegeto could easily destroy a Galaxy if they so please. How do we know that the power leves of other anime characters even are close to the power scales?
Brolly is not canon
Because it is subjective, the power leveling difference is extremely random, and in many cases, either exessive, or underpowered.For example, Vegeta when he first arrived on Earth, was stated twice as being able to destroy a planet at 19,000. (In the anime, he does this with a finger beam like nothing in a filler episode, so take it in discretion.) Yet Frieza in his initial state used one of his surefire techniques to do it, and still needed a coreshot to do it, and his power was roughly 500,000.... Thats a massive miscalculation... Either Vegeta was more proficient in blowing away planets than someone who is several DOZEN times his power (Absurd to the max), Frieza is considerably WEAKER than the stats would indicate (Also absurd, considering how afraid Vegeta was of Frieza), or the stats are as inconclusive as they look.
I actually think Vegeta was just bluffing at that point. You have to consider his mental state. He was being beaten by someone he considered to be just trash and a worthless opponent, and he was extremely proud of his status as the strongest Saiya-jin warrior - he was basically having a nervous breakdown. In the very same scene he stated he was the strongest in the universe, despite the fact that he knew Frieza was stronger than him.
What!!! If you can instant transmission from one planet to then next in a few seconds what do you call that then?
Teleportation 😆
Everyone on dbz short of chazuu can move/react far above light speed.
They are not even 1% of c without teleportation techniques or spaceships. You're making things up.
By the end of dbz his powerlevels was in the billions (could be trillions) but thats not the case. Cell stated that he was going to destroy the solar system, since dbz characters have the abilities of reading powerlevels they didnt call it as a bluff and gohun countered his attack with more power.
Not this crap again. Said attack only left a small crater in the ground. It's hyperbole with nothing to back it up. Furthermore they would have no idea what it took to destroy a solar system, they aren't scientists who could calculate such a thing. Unless they had actually seen it happen before and sensed the amount of ki used they would not be able to tell if he could or not.
You do know that before frieza attempted to blow the planet namek up he was hit with a city size spirit bomb, got the hell beat out of him by a super saiyan goku and lets not count what happened before all of that.He was extremely weakened, he was even breathing heavy before his attack. That the reason planet namek wasnt destroyed, he might didnt put enough power into it or hell, he might didnt have enough power. Super sayain goku was brushing off all of his attacks like it was candy.
This contradicts the events of the manga directly. Frieza kept using more and more of his power as the fight went on. At the point where he tried to destroy the planet he was at 50% power.
Are you seriously suggesting that at that point he had been hurt so badly he was weaker than Vegeta was in the Saiyan saga? That makes no sense whatsoever.
I was talking about the Death Ball he launched at Planet Vegeta...
That was actually filler
The gravity never malfunctioned. He nearly did kill himself on his ship though and that might have boosted him. But he was aware of that, meaning he could undergo the same sort of training on earth. Zenkai is a part of training.
Yet we never see them actually using it in training except for on the spaceship and when Vegeta was desperately trying to reach SSJ level. I'm thinking it reaches a point of diminishing returns after SSJ is achieved. Eitther that or Chichi wouldn't let Goku do something so risky 😛
I'd suggest that at the end of Cell saga they were in the trillions.
But this is directly contradicted by the Super Exciting Guide (supervised and approved by Toriyama) that lists SSJ as 50x base level, SSJ2 as 2x SSJ, and SSJ3 as 4x SSJ2
And if goku is not the strongest then a nother contender would be vegeto ssj.
Well he's certainly stronger than Goku, but nowhere near the top levels.
Honestly DBZ isn't even in the equation here, it just gets mentions in these threads because of all the fanboys.
For example I'm fairly certain that Hao after his most recent powerup in the Shaman King manga could solo DBverse pretty easily
Actually the destruction of an earthlike planet is around 2.4e32j, and a supernova is on the magnitude of 1e44j, so it's more like a trillion times.
That'll teach me to work from memory rather than checking my figures. I thought it was 2.4e36 for some reason.
Now with magic of the internet: That value is actually the upper bound for planetary destruction where any debree is thrown from the suns orbit. The lowest energy needed to destroy a planet is 2.9 x 10e31 J.
This leaves a cloud of debree in the planets former orbit which was what was observed when Frieza blew up Namek.
We have the big bang at 3.0 x 10e69. Which is the lowest energy the various universal level anime characters could have. Or a Trillion, trillion, trillion times stronger than Frieza. That's not including multiversal characters who'd be an even greater magnitude more powerful.
Earth: 2.24 E39, Sun: 3.0 E48
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-11/1004909251.As.r.html