Originally posted by UshgarakDemocracy is nothing but a theory being tested by our current politics. Also if it doesn't become the tyranny of the majority it might become an oligarchy. Democracy much like other political idealism is an illusion.
Democracy is NOT the tyranny of the majority!
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Incitement to racial hatred is something worth censoring.
I absolutely agree! Racial hatred should end! But is not happening and never will!
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Some messages MUST be opposed by liberal democracies via means of legislation. TO say we should not because people should be convinced by argument is akin to saying we should have no laws, people should just be persuaded to act in the right way. It doesn't work- society must sometimes be forced.
So are you saying that in order to keep Racial tensions down the Government should censor those individuals? But isn't that giving the Government more power to censor the citizens? You mention that Society must be forced? Why not educated them? Teach Racial Tolerance to the citizens rather than to force them to obey laws by legislagion.
"So are you saying that in order to keep Racial tensions down the Government should censor those individuals? But isn't that giving the Government more power to censor the citizens? You mention that Society must be forced? Why not educated them? Teach Racial Tolerance to the citizens rather than to force them to obey laws by legislagion."
Why not live in a society without Government where everyone contributes to the community out of altruism?
Because it doesn't WORK. Obviously education is a good idea but if you rely on it to make good citizens of everyone you'll get burned. When you cannot rely on people, despite educative efforts, to not do horrible things, they have to be forced or everyone suffers. It's one of the basic purposes of Government. Legislation in this matter- in the form of laws that make inciting racial hatred illegal- is just and necessary.
"Democracy is nothing but a theory being tested by our current politics. Also if it doesn't become the tyranny of the majority it might become an oligarchy. Democracy much like other political idealism is an illusion. "
Huh? You'll have to explain that as it appears to be babble. Representative democracy- which is miles away from majority tyranny- is not remotely like an oligarchy either.
And how the heck do you mean illusion? Democracy is not an illusion at all, it is an existing concept. The only thing that might be illusiory is your definition of it, which likely simply makes your definition wrong.
The UK would actually fall under the definition 'oligarchy' but that is a completely different term to 'democracy' ; the respective translations being 'rule of the few' and 'power to the people.' Witness eg the Mcpherson report's demand that people should be arrested for words uttered within the confines of their home! High time for Magna Charta II!
Originally posted by UshgarakWhy not live in a society without Government where everyone contributes to the community out of altruism?
Because it doesn't WORK. Obviously education is a good idea but if you rely on it to make good citizens of everyone you'll get burned. When you cannot rely on people, despite educative efforts, to not do horrible things, they have to be forced or everyone suffers. It's one of the basic purposes of Government. Legislation in this matter- in the form of laws that make inciting racial hatred illegal- is just and necessary.
Of course it doesn't work Ushgarak! There must be some time of leadership in any society. My point was that we shouldn't allow Government to have all the censorship they want. Education isn't the only solution, but sometimes is the only solution to educate people on issues of racism. Laws only tell you what not to do. But education goes much more farther than that. It develops a character and a more educated indiviual.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
"Democracy is nothing but a theory being tested by our current politics. Also if it doesn't become the tyranny of the majority it might become an oligarchy. Democracy much like other political idealism is an illusion. "Huh? You'll have to explain that as it appears to be babble. Representative democracy- which is miles away from majority tyranny- is not remotely like an oligarchy either.
It is only a theory! Democracy hasn't been effective in 3rd World countries where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Even countries that drop their totalitarian dictatorships systems haven't even develop as rapidly as expected. Oligarchies continue to expand in those countries to the point in which labor unions cannot even defend their workers. Democracy has proven to work in countries where the economy can be stabilize. But even in those countries certain corruptions do occur. What's a good example? How about the US and Enron. Democracy is pretty big, but we still have corruption in the business section which is the backbone of the nation.
Re: "No offense, but..."
Originally posted by Darth Revan
I was reading some posts in the forum, and I was thinking about something... It seems like people these days take offense way too easily. Either that, or everybody is just so damn afraid of pissing people off that they're constantly paranoid that some person, somewhere, is going to be "offended" by something they say. Like censors, for example... I was talking to some people on another forum, they were really sensitive about this kind of thing. I said the f word once and they both practically exploded. Or this whole "holiday season" thing--you're not allowed to say "what did you get for Christmas" anymore, because there might be a person in the room who doesn't celebrate Christmas. Gee, if I were Jewish I would really get upset if somebody asked me that. 🙄I'm not saying there's no need for things like censors. But IMHO it's been carried a little too far recently.
Thats why KMC is so fu.ckin great. You can say pretty much any damn thing you want, and have it expressed to any one who reads it. I totally agree though. I cant speak out side of America, but i know it seems that we as a society have become way to preoccupied with other peopls feelings. As long as you are not intentially trying to degrate or offend someone then you should be able to speak your mind. there are other situations where restrictions should be put, but it's getting to the point in America where you cant even say that Coke is your favorite soda, because it may offend pepsi lovers.
Re: "No offense, but..."
Originally posted by Darth Revan
I was reading some posts in the forum, and I was thinking about something... It seems like people these days take offense way too easily. Either that, or everybody is just so damn afraid of pissing people off that they're constantly paranoid that some person, somewhere, is going to be "offended" by something they say. Like censors, for example... I was talking to some people on another forum, they were really sensitive about this kind of thing. I said the f word once and they both practically exploded. Or this whole "holiday season" thing--you're not allowed to say "what did you get for Christmas" anymore, because there might be a person in the room who doesn't celebrate Christmas. Gee, if I were Jewish I would really get upset if somebody asked me that. 🙄I'm not saying there's no need for things like censors. But IMHO it's been carried a little too far recently.
we have become a society of wusses. nobody is honest anymore. everybody sugar coats sh!t. starting with this political correctness bullsh!t. what do you think midgets were called before "little people?" let's get over what each other thinks and start being real.
Re: Re: "No offense, but..."
Originally posted by mc pee pants
we have become a society of wusses. nobody is honest anymore. everybody sugar coats sh!t. starting with this political correctness bullsh!t. what do you think midgets were called before "little people?" let's get over what each other thinks and start being real.
Yep, thank god for shows like south park who go out of their way to offend as many idiots as possible. God bless that show.
Re: Re: "No offense, but..."
Originally posted by mc pee pants
we have become a society of wusses. nobody is honest anymore. everybody sugar coats sh!t. starting with this political correctness bullsh!t. what do you think midgets were called before "little people?" let's get over what each other thinks and start being real.
We sugarcoat things for people to save them embarrassment, just like we hate to be embarrassed ourself.
Do you like to tell someone how ugly or stupid they are? Its good to be honest, but you cannot always be brutal about it - you just cannot.