Rock vs Rap

You can't tell me this isn't brilliant writing.

Sole - Suicide Song

my phone rang, i converse with busy signal.
why can't they let me die in pieces?
i don't want any more food or condolences, let my people go.
burn off this useless flesh and make meals of my pestilence.
lessons are my tournaquets.
maybe i've seen too much and not had enough.
either way, this is my last entry forever,
please don't let my children read this.

i was meditating when i wrote this
the first time but interrupted by my screaming walls.
hard to concentrate in my 7 x 12 cell,
everyone watching my every move.
even with these shrouds, i feel naked,
the windows talk to me and tell me that i oughtta leave.
only one way out the door is too risky,
someone might not see me be careful.

we used to paint, the canvas made me feel alive.
oh, how they marveled at the spectacle i made of myself.
i made it for them, but it was really my communication to conjure up through.
forever immortalized carbon dioxide chokes me,
and i fear no man but my shadows.
there are a lot of things i've learned not to say out loud,
if my parents were alive they'd still be proud.

sometimes i imagine myself as a loss,
the leftover remains of a cast-away god.
if i'm homeless there's no earth.
someday i'll be famous, and you can put that on my birth.
my word is worth the demons that raped my being, childhood didn't happen,
i was made as this my walking prison.
guarded by my life on a limb, mood swings
enjoy at my whim, take it for what it seems and much more.
must find maker, how am i? and who did i?
and how did i wake up on this bench covered in mud?

taking a shower won't alleive my stress.
i can't even lift my brush to paint my long-awaited good-bye.
yet i'm feeling optimistic, relatively.
this is my testimony, in a test i've passed miserably.
why do i keep dying in public places?
the medication should take two hours to take affect.
the last time i was killed eating my last meal,
it's embarassing and i die inside.

this is my favorite rock,
i come here to think about all the things that make me.
this is my favorite poem,
i wrote this before i died last time.
these are my favorite friends,
they don't talk much and probably aren't even listening.
this is my favorite place,
so i hope that i don't last here too long.

the other night i was doing my everyday things,
trying to find a girl to take to my apartment.
she's beautiful and clearly cares for me,
she likes my work, and wants to understand what fuels my art.
we lay side by side
happy knowing that there was only thirty minutes left of this to endure.
she spoke typical things and gave of herself freely,
but started freaking out as i convulsed during oral sex.
concerned for me, she held me,
and i laugh at those tears for a while.

the next day, i was still dead and she had joined me.
how odd as i recall of how she gave of herself freely.
as i drank my orange juice, i began to study all of her beauty,
we danced and made love for hours.
talked about important things and how our children would grow up and die also.
and how futile it was until we finally fell in love,
i'll never be alone again and she will never leave me.

i've forgotten why i write these things down.
even as i write this,
i'm realizing how useless it is to put ideas to words,
water to wine, stupidity and valor,
the streetlights i pray to and the gutters i fish in.
my wife is no longer good at sex, her body doesn't speak to me
and i'm getting sick of her attitude.
there's other fish in the sea
and i haven't stopped breathing for three days,
i hope everything is alright.

today i downed ninety milligrams,
after twenty i could feel the head rush.
i raced to my gallery roof,
gazing at the beauty that we always take for granted
it's my opening night, spinning everyone will be there who's anyone,
to bear witness to my newest, latest, and greatest work.
i'm a comet, human cannonball, swan-dive,
never has the air been so clean,
i inhale then exhale and become one,
my end in the sidewalk,
a vivid display of 170 pounds of blood, sweat and tears critique away,
but my greatest work is in the pavement, i made it for you.

this is my favorite performance and i hope nobody ever bites it.
this is what i've been working up to all along, finally alone at last.
this is my favorite person, and she will always be with me in spirit.
these are my favorite words, i hope i don't have anything left to say.

Originally posted by MF D00m
All you have to do is look, and you'll find good hip-hop. NOT one person that has dissed hip-hop in this thread has heard any ACTUAL hip-hop, and that's sad... sad because you're judging something you don't even know.

honey i was joking....i don't personally like hip-hop but i'm not going to snowball the whole genre. that's like someone coming up to me and saying 'rock sucks, i mean "girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money"? that doesn't have any meaning, rock sucks.'
and yeah, good charlotte isn't exactly the best representation of rock, but i'm not going to say that all hip-hop sucks because of what i've listened to...yeah, the lyrics you posted do seem really meaningful.

Originally posted by MF D00m
All you have to do is look, and you'll find good hip-hop. NOT one person that has dissed hip-hop in this thread has heard any ACTUAL hip-hop, and that's sad... sad because you're judging something you don't even know.

what's sad is that non of the lyrics you posted sound good/cool/interesting/etc...

in my opinion at least

Originally posted by 113
what's sad is that non of the lyrics you posted sound good/cool/interesting/etc...

in my opinion at least

Honestly bro, no disrespect, but you're opinion is worthless. Calling people "gayass", like some little kid shows how immature you are and just how much you don't know. The lyrics weren't posted to be "cool", but just to show there are great lyrics out there. I never in a million years would expect YOU to appreciate or understand them. You're a child. When you grow up, you'll learn to appreciate and understand things more. It's sad that your brain wont allow you to understand and appreciate such great writing. The fact that you thought they were supposed to be "cool", tells me a lot. So it doesn't matter what your opinion is, because you're just some ignorant little kid.

and not all kids are ignorant and childish. There are some brilliant kids out there... you're just not one of them.

I gave a list of who I view real Hiphop to be. I never disputed great Hiphop writers. However, put the most intelligent, meaningful Hiphop lyrics up against that of Rock and it's really no comparison. The lyrics to "Parabola" by Tool alone reign supreme over pretty much anything.

-AC

Originally posted by fuct_up_kid
honey i was joking....i don't personally like hip-hop but i'm not going to snowball the whole genre. that's like someone coming up to me and saying 'rock sucks, i mean "girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money"? that doesn't have any meaning, rock sucks.'
and yeah, good charlotte isn't exactly the best representation of rock, but i'm not going to say that all hip-hop sucks because of what i've listened to...yeah, the lyrics you posted do seem really meaningful.

I respect that. I don't care if people don't like hip-hop... at all. But when they judge it based on the crap they see on TV and what's on the radio, then it bothers me... because that's just ignorant. I can respect somebody that doesn't like hip-hop, but not if they bash it not knowing what the hell they're talking about.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I gave a list of who I view real Hiphop to be. I never disputed great Hiphop writers. However, put the most intelligent, meaningful Hiphop lyrics up against that of Rock and it's really no comparison. The lyrics to "Parabola" by Tool alone reign supreme over pretty much anything.

-AC

I agree to disagree.

Well in technical terms, Keenan's lyrics are superior to all those you posted, and I say that from the point of view of a literary critic as well as a fan.

There is a marked difference between what is going on artistically.

I do think MF Doom, that you should read some of the lyrics I'm mentioning. If you can understand them then you would know that not only is Keenan on a higher intellectual level, but the fact that he can weave those messages and thoughts into a song the way that he does just flattens anything.

"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment, remember; We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion."
-"Parabola" by Tool.

If you can understand that you'd know why it wipes the floor with almost anything lyrical. Let alone Hiphop.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I do think MF Doom, that you should read some of the lyrics I'm mentioning. If you can understand them then you would know that not only is Keenan on a higher intellectual level, but the fact that he can weave those messages and thoughts into a song the way that he does just flattens anything.

"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment, remember; We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion."
-"Parabola" by Tool.

If you can understand that you'd know why it wipes the floor with almost anything lyrical. Let alone Hiphop.

-AC

1. I never said they weren't intellectual or otherwise.
2. Who couldn't understand them?
3. How many hip-hop songs (other than what's on TV and the radio) have you heard?
4. I disagree with you now even more than I did earlier.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Well in technical terms, Keenan's lyrics are superior to all those you posted, and I say that from the point of view of a literary critic as well as a fan.

There is a marked difference between what is going on artistically.

That's your opinion, and that's fine... but I disagree.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
the fact that he can weave those messages and thoughts into a song the way that he does just flattens anything.

You need to get out more. NO, I am not saying he's not a very talented writer, but the fact you say his writing "flattens anything" shows that you haven't heard much... ESPECIALLY by hip-hop writers.

He's not the best writer in the world, no matter how much you worship him. As good as he is, there's still better.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I gave a list of who I view real Hiphop to be.

Please re-post this list.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
put the most intelligent, meaningful Hiphop lyrics up against that of Rock and it's really no comparison.

#1, Have you heard every single hip-hop song ever? Have you heard every rock song ever?

Nope, you haven't. So saying that is just stupid when you haven't even heard all that is to hear. I'm not gonna come out and say hip-hop lyrics are flat out better, because I haven't heard everything there is to hear... but I will say that they don't get the credit they deserve.

#2, I dont think i'll be responding to anymore of your points until you've heard everything there is to hear when it comes to rock and hip-hop. Then you can make that statement.

You're just saying what "you think" is right, not what you actually know.

"Now I see why you think hip-hop writers aren't that good. It all makes sense now."

This is actually rather funny. I have a distaste for people, anyone, who sacrifices respect, honour and talent, for limelight. Call me crazy but I value music that much.

"Please re-post this list."

You're not a handicap are you? Go back and find it.

"3. How many hip-hop songs (other than what's on TV and the radio) have you heard?"

Oh and may I be the first to pop the "I'm the knowledge of Hiphop" bubble you appear to be living in. I was raised on Hiphop from the age of 4. More of my cd collection is Hiphop than it is Rock. Saul Williams, Aesop Rock, Big Daddy Kane, A Tribe Called Quest, Public Enemy, Rakim and Eric B, De La Soul, Wu-Tang Clan.

For someone who uttered the words "you're saying what you think is right, but don't actually know", I would heed your own words before you start making assumptions about me. Don't assume I give Rock lyricists and musicians the nod over Hiphop for no reason. I have just comparisons. Firstly, you cannot compare a man, no matter how talented, rhyming over a beat made by pushing buttons and flipping switches for the most part....to a 3 or more piece band who go out and play instruments with amazing competence. Actually play music at live gigs. Don't go out and rhyme with a DJ and a Hype man. They go out an play songs.

""He's not the best writer in the world, no matter how much you worship him. As good as he is, there's still better."

Suddenly the phrase "people dismiss what they do not understand" comes to mind.

Ok then if you think anyone can understand the lyric I just posted, give me your interpretation of it and lets see if you have the intellect you claim to have. Coz if you can't decipher complex Rock lyricism how can your debate be just? Yes yes. I await your reply.

-AC

"a vivid display of 170 pounds of blood, sweat and tears critique away,
but my greatest work is in the pavement, i made it for you."

VS

"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment, remember; We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion."

Hahaha. Quite funny. Funnier that I see why it's funny and you don't.

-AC

Originally posted by MF D00m
Honestly bro, no disrespect, but you're opinion is worthless. Calling people "gayass", like some little kid shows how immature you are and just how much you don't know. The lyrics weren't posted to be "cool", but just to show there are great lyrics out there. I never in a million years would expect YOU to appreciate or understand them. You're a child. When you grow up, you'll learn to appreciate and understand things more. It's sad that your brain wont allow you to understand and appreciate such great writing. The fact that you thought they were supposed to be "cool", tells me a lot. So it doesn't matter what your opinion is, because you're just some ignorant little kid.

and not all kids are ignorant and childish. There are some brilliant kids out there... you're just not one of them.

ok mfdoom...first off i'm just as old as half the people on this forum...second off i called u a gayass before cause i don't respect ur opinion, i don't honor it, i don't like how u patronize people who listen to mainstream rap, and i don't liek the fact that you think your musical taste is superior......and notice i said good/cool/interesting...cool music means the same as good music for me..don't make an argument on the use of 1 word...and just because i don't find the lyrics you posted good/cool doesn't mean i'm ignorant or that my opnion doesn't count....i dont' think the lyrics u posted are genius, i don't think they're good, and i don't have to like em period. just because u like those lyrics doesn't mean they're the best thing ever.

Originally posted by MF D00m
That's your opinion, and that's fine... but I disagree.

Fair enough, but there actually is much more going on in a literary sense.

"Now I see why you think hip-hop writers aren't that good. It all makes sense now."

This is actually rather funny. I have a distaste for people, anyone, who sacrifices respect, honour and talent, for limelight. Call me crazy but I value music that much.

I said that, because you said eminem "use" to be one of the greatest ever... and that's stupid, because he's never been. Now, or then.

"Please re-post this list."

You're not a handicap are you? Go back and find it.

I don't care about you, let alone enough to waste my time looking for your past posts.

"3. How many hip-hop songs (other than what's on TV and the radio) have you heard?"

Oh and may I be the first to pop the "I'm the knowledge of Hiphop" bubble you appear to be living in. I was raised on Hiphop from the age of 4. More of my cd collection is Hiphop than it is Rock. Saul Williams, Aesop Rock, Big Daddy Kane, A Tribe Called Quest, Public Enemy, Rakim and Eric B, De La Soul, Wu-Tang Clan.

Name dropping doesn't impress me. No bubble's burst. "LOOK! See, I know these artists, so I know what I'm talking about" HA!. You can name drop all day and it doesn't mean anything as far as this is concerned. Oh, and they aren't THE best writers in hip-hop, so it doesn't matter that you know them.

Originally posted by MF D00m
#1, Have you heard every single hip-hop song ever? Have you heard every rock song ever?

Nope, you haven't. So saying that is just stupid when you haven't even heard all that is to hear. I'm not gonna come out and say hip-hop lyrics are flat out better, because I haven't heard everything there is to hear... but I will say that they don't get the credit they deserve.

#2, I dont think i'll be responding to anymore of your points until you've heard everything there is to hear when it comes to rock and hip-hop. Then you can make that statement.

You're just saying what "you think" is right, not what you actually know.

I stand by this statement. How can you say one is better than the other when you honestly don't know? It's really pointless to argue with you. "Oh, see if you can understand this...", pshhhh, we're not in the 4th grade. This isn't a lyric off, where we see who can understand the most lyrics. Let me be a child for a second. "Interpret Suicide Song by Sole and let's see how much you know". OK, that wasn't any fun. The fact is that you said rock's lyrics are superior to anything hip-hop has when that statement is ignorant. You don't know. You haven't heard everything there is to hear. This is really pointless. Have fun with your lyric off.

Originally posted by 113
ok mfdoom...first off i'm just as old as half the people on this forum...second off i called u a gayass before cause i don't respect ur opinion, i don't honor it, i don't like how u patronize people who listen to mainstream rap, and i don't liek the fact that you think your musical taste is superior......and notice i said good/cool/interesting...cool music means the same as good music for me..don't make an argument on the use of 1 word...and just because i don't find the lyrics you posted good/cool doesn't mean i'm ignorant or that my opnion doesn't count....i dont' think the lyrics u posted are genius, i don't think they're good, and i don't have to like em period. just because u like those lyrics doesn't mean they're the best thing ever.

In my best 113 impression : "GAYASS".

Talking to you kills brain cells.

Must
stop
before
it's
too

late