Marvel Universe Hierarchy

Originally posted by Creshosk
Naturally, you hate a character so why give them a proper shake? 🙂

just because many are revealing the truth about Phoenixs place in the nultiverse from another perspective does not mean I hate the character. I am open to ideas, its just as a number of peoples recent posts have shown, perhaps Phoenix was given her "shake" unduly. 😄 I think those who bought into the Phoenix "myth" are the haters 🙂 as all they do is use misdirection and attempt to make it personal 🙂 rather than admit how wrong they are, to those of us who know what filibuster means and how to ignore it. 🙂

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
just because many are revealing the truth about Phoenixs place in the nultiverse from another perspective does not mean I hate the character.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I am open to ideas, its just as a number of peoples recent posts have shown, perhaps Phoenix was given her "shake" unduly.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
😄 I think those who bought into the Phoenix "myth" are the haters 🙂

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
as all they do is use misdirection and attempt to make it personal 🙂

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
rather than admit how wrong they are, to those of us who know what filibuster means and how to ignore it. 🙂

And saying that she's a testicle is sooo much more objective than reading the comics being refered to. 🙂

And simply posting the same picture over and over and ignoring whatever else anyone says is not a filibuster. 😉

Originally posted by Creshosk
No, but agreeing with statements like "Phoenix and everything about phoenix sucks" and "Phoenix is like my testicle" Does. 🙂

The people who simply say "Phoenix sucks" and "Phoenix is my testicle" Are hardly being objective themselves.

Yes, as obviously those saying she sucks and is a testicle are not. 🙂

As opposed to callling her various body parts and saying she sucks?

Yes because "Phoenix sucks!" is soooo much more informative than an actual discussion.

And saying that she's a testicle is sooo much more objective than reading the comics being refered to. 🙂

And simply posting the same picture over and over and ignoring whatever else anyone says is not a filibuster. 😉

yes I often call Phoenix bodyparts 🙄

You mean a lot of people say Phoenix sucks 😄

People liked "jgg" what can I say 🙂

Keep the faith 🙂

Stay Whirly 🤘

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
yes I often call Phoenix bodyparts 🙄

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
You mean a lot of people say Phoenix sucks 😄

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
People liked "jgg" what can I say 🙂

Hmmm...I don't like Super man too much after the way they wrote up the Super man VS Thor fight...could have done a bit better with that.
I was on Thor's side. Mind you if they can make a green lanteen the spectre they can some how cheat with super man and make him up there with the cosmic types...but the way he is now I rate him with characters like ..Thor , Gladiator , Silver Surfer and Aunt May LOL.

Sarcasticool

Can we stick to some form of discussion...?
The phoenix force is up there probably around just under the cosmic cube stage though when used on the fake beyonder had little effect.
The Beyonder back then was just an immature Cosmic cube power that later merged with the Molecule man and then became Cosmos which would make it up with the Shaper and Kubik. Remember we are dealing with the pheonix FORCE not Jean Grey etc...who had the PF.I don't think the Pheonix force is anywhere near the level of The LT or Eternity.

Sarcasticool

Originally posted by Sarcasticool
Can we stick to some form of discussion...?
The phoenix force is up there probably around just under the cosmic cube stage though when used on the fake beyonder had little effect.
The Beyonder back then was just an immature Cosmic cube power that later merged with the Molecule man and then became Cosmos which would make it up with the Shaper and Kubik. Remember we are dealing with the pheonix FORCE not Jean Grey etc...who had the PF.I don't think the Pheonix force is anywhere near the level of The LT or Eternity.

Sarcasticool

Allow me to refer you to New Xmen, Xmen Forever or Endsong. No offense but you obviously havent been keeping up to date with current continuity. As per current continuity Phoenix created the multiverse and is the caretaker of the creation cycle. I have the comics as files and id happily send them to you if you're interested on finding out for yourself. Otherwise know that you're very wrong yet you have the option to find out whats what.

As for your comments on the cosmic cube and phoenix you dont seem to acknowledge exactly what a retcon entails. The retcon which depowered Beyonder and the cube beings happened about ten years ago. However in Secret Wars 2 the retcon wasnt in the mind of the writers he was written as omnipotent and one of if not the most powerful being in the multiverse at that time. That is why in debates in the versus forum we sometimes include the Pre-retcon Beyonder as a combatant as that refers to him when he was written as omnipotent.

Dont forget that that Beyonder also took out the Celestials and was stated to be more powerful than LT but does that make them all less than cosmic cube level? By your logic it would.

Either way read those titles to find out the status quo. As it stands Phoenix is a caretaker of the creation cycle and the beginning and end of the multiverse. This was all revealed in the comics quite recently, thats why you'll see a big difference between hierarchy lists posted in 2004 and those posted over the last few months.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
just because many are revealing the truth about Phoenixs place in the nultiverse from another perspective does not mean I hate the character. I am open to ideas, its just as a number of peoples recent posts have shown, perhaps Phoenix was given her "shake" unduly. I think those who bought into the Phoenix "myth" are the haters 🙂 as all they do is use misdirection and attempt to make it personal rather than admit how wrong they are, to those of us who know what filibuster means and how to ignore it.

The haters are those who dismiss scans and criticise comic book interpretations without having read said comics themselves 😮

People have certainly questioned the application of Kaballah in Marvel but thats an issue to be taken up with the writers. Dont shoot the messenger whatever you do 😱 😂

Despite all the hard efforts of a bitter few while a lot of people may hate the character or a lot of people might not agree with my every word, i have not come across a single veteran debater who doesnt now give phoenix more cred than they used to. Aint that just grand. 🙂 No need for hating mate. 🙂 Be happy for me 🙂 😱

Don't get me wrong ... I don't hate the phoenix force or those it choses to empower.you are right I have been out of the latest phoenix data, however i did read somewhere that the idea that the phoenix force is another form of the living Tribunal or the most powerful force in the marvel Universe is speculation at best.as for the idea of the Beyonder being at the time he was written the single most powerful being in the marvel universe was true however when he was later writen as the cosmic cube the marvel universe still has to fit in with the story line now...and all the Celestial battles with the beyonder and the display at the end with LT, eternity and cosmic beings were simply a anthropomorphic display for the badly writen continuity.
There is no need to get upset ...I don't hate phoenix, but i will make an effort to look into it more ok...I am not to proud to say I'm wrong.

sarcasticool

It should also be wise to realise that just as beings like the beyonder can be re-written as not the omnipotent being as he originally was, so to can it happen to any character in the Marvel Universe at the whim of any writer of that character to fit in to the ever changing continuim that is marvel...that includes characters like Phoenix. Marvel can down-scale any character no matter what it's former profile. All I can really ask is that Marvel be consistant with their story lines. I think the idea of the Phoenix force is good though, but if the charcater is up where you say on the cosmic ladder then I am disappointed with Marvel, because I believe it's another desperate plot to create another all-powerful force, to later reveal it not be what it appears.

Originally posted by Sarcasticool
It should also be wise to realise that just as beings like the beyonder can be re-written as not the omnipotent being as he originally was, so to can it happen to any character in the Marvel Universe at the whim of any writer of that character to fit in to the ever changing continuim that is marvel...that includes characters like Phoenix. Marvel can down-scale any character no matter what it's former profile. All I can really ask is that Marvel be consistant with their story lines. I think the idea of the Phoenix force is good though, but if the charcater is up where you say on the cosmic ladder then I am disappointed with Marvel, because I believe it's another desperate plot to create another all-powerful force, to later reveal it not be what it appears.

The phoenix was stated to second only to Marvels supreme being from its 1st showing in 1980. That got retconned in 86. That retcon lasted until 2002 where everything was reverted through titles such as Xmen Forever, New Xmen, Endsong and F4

But you're correct. Any character can be written off at any time by the writers and we as readers must accept that. All that matters really is current continuity and in it phoenix is is a peer of LT and works for the Crown which by its defition translates as an emanation point for Gods essence. Check up on it.

This is a better hiearchy near the bottom of the page by TOAA

the whole page is good though 🙂

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=366709&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=16

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
This is a better hiearchy near the bottom of the page by TOAA

the whole page is good though 🙂

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=366709&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=16

Originally posted by Creshosk
Incomplete hierarchies are hardly better than other ones. You just like that because it places a character you hate lower than most of the others shown. 😛

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=366709&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=16

I've seen your mass debating before. 🙂

7

Hmmm...interesting. i will read more into that. Thanks for the info.
The living tribunal is obviously lower than the Marvel Amalgam brother who is the embodiment of the Marvel Reality and the Marvel/DC amalgamated Brother higher still. As for the Beyonders being under the LT reign has not yet been really proven...however I would expect the Beyonders to be under the Marvel Brothers level as he embodies all that Marvel is and the Beyonders are still part of marvel. If Marvel and DC joind then TOAA would be over both Spectre and LT but at the moment if he is only the supreme marvel deity then he is incomposed in The Marvel Bro. Or the marvel brother could be an m-body of TOAA.

Originally posted by Sarcasticool
Hmmm...interesting. i will read more into that. Thanks for the info.
The living tribunal is obviously lower than the Marvel Amalgam brother who is the embodiment of the Marvel Reality and the Marvel/DC amalgamated Brother higher still. As for the Beyonders being under the LT reign has not yet been really proven...however I would expect the Beyonders to be under the Marvel Brothers level as he embodies all that Marvel is and the Beyonders are still part of marvel. If Marvel and DC joind then TOAA would be over both Spectre and LT but at the moment if he is only the supreme marvel deity then he is incomposed in The Marvel Bro. Or the marvel brother could be an m-body of TOAA.

The Marvel brothers arent canon for either DC or Marvel hence the reason theyre not included in hierarchys.

The True Beyonders (dont confuse with the fake beyonder) are from the Beyond Realm which is apparrently another dimension within the marvel multiverse. It was the fake beyonder who claimed to be from beyond our multiverse but that was all retconned. That fake Beyonder was then over 10 years ago linked to pre-existing characters called the Beyonders. The Beyonders are from within the multiverse and are under Lt's jurisdiction.

The list of A-Z beings was not based on accepted canon for the hierarchys by those posted here but rather as I said an A-Z of cosmic beings and other high powered entitys. They are still charactrs and therefore as far as i am concerned they get a slot.For arguements sake if they were included in a list they would be where i said.All this non-mainstream /non-canon stuff is a cop out when dealing with a true list over all of marvel characters not as in the continuim that constantly changes. I am well aware of the True Beyonders that study outside their realm ,and send the power for cosmic cubes and the fake beyonder/cosmos/maker(imature cosmic cube power). Yes the Beyonders are in the Marvel multiverse , or maybe they are in a dimension outside of LT's jurisdiction and merely perring into his dimension. Really there is not enough data on the beyonders apart from what we already know to be speculating too much on where they are on the Cosmic ladder.

Originally posted by Sarcasticool
The list of A-Z beings was not based on accepted canon for the hierarchys by those posted here but rather as I said an A-Z of cosmic beings and other high powered entitys. They are still charactrs and therefore as far as i am concerned they get a slot.For arguements sake if they were included in a list they would be where i said.All this non-mainstream /non-canon stuff is a cop out when dealing with a true list over all of marvel characters not as in the continuim that constantly changes. I am well aware of the True Beyonders that study outside their realm ,and send the power for cosmic cubes and the fake beyonder/cosmos/maker(imature cosmic cube power). Yes the Beyonders are in the Marvel multiverse , or maybe they are in a dimension outside of LT's jurisdiction and merely perring into his dimension. Really there is not enough data on the beyonders apart from what we already know to be speculating too much on where they are on the Cosmic ladder.

Ive just told you that the Beyonder was powered down by linking him to pre-existing characters called the Beyonders who had featured in comics before. Remember the cosmic cubes and their makers were around before Secret Wars. These Beyonders are from within Marvels multiverse so on panel when characters sum up the forces of the multiverse they are included. LT and the White Crown Phoenix are are above them by all accounts.