George W Bush

Originally posted by Zanthor
So now that WMD didn't work out we are reverting back to 'Saddam didn't allow the inspectors access' That is a great reason. I'll put it in a letter to send the the families of the Iraqis who died for Bush's War. You know the ones. The 3 year old that was living next to the 'terrorists'. The mother who died because she was in the wrong place when our military decided to blow up a building.

Not many people look at this war from the Iraqis point of view. What would we do if another country invaded America. Wouldn't we fight them? Would we be considered terrorists?

I am sure there are people in Iraq that deserve to die. However Mr. Bush never addresses the people who didn't need to die.

Sorry Bush supporters, none of your reason seem good enough. How many more innocents needed to die for Bush's Greed and Revenge?

WMD didn't work huh? who ever said that? you only see what you want to see and try to twist your own vision to what you want to see. How about the slaughtered families attacked by terrorists? why don't you put that into your letter of consolation? how about the torture chambers and the mass graves?
You want a story of tyranny, look at the american revolution... look at the suffering and hardship we were willing to face for what? Freedom. Every revolution, every overthrow involves a bit of suffering. You are just selfish when it come to the ideals you take for granted. You dishono the memory of our ancestors and all of humanity with your disregaurd for thier sacrifices.

Amen Raven! Amen!

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
WMD didn't work huh? who ever said that? you only see what you want to see and try to twist your own vision to what you want to see. How about the slaughtered families attacked by terrorists? why don't you put that into your letter of consolation? how about the torture chambers and the mass graves?
You want a story of tyranny, look at the american revolution... look at the suffering and hardship we were willing to face for what? Freedom. Every revolution, every overthrow involves a bit of suffering. You are just selfish when it come to the ideals you take for granted. You dishono the memory of our ancestors and all of humanity with your disregaurd for thier sacrifices.

Slaughtered families attacked by terrorists? Was this a big problem before we invaded? Ummm no! Saddam controlled the country. Maybe not well. Our beloved President created the blood bath.

All that you list the gas chambers, mass graves. Etc. That was why the international community was against Saddam. It has been like that for years. Now all the of the sudden Bush cared? To help people?

Revolution? Yes, interesting you bring that up. WE wanted freedom and we did something about it. The Iraqis didn't. We did it for them. In the Revolution we had help from the French. We invited the French to help us. As a government. In Iraq we took over and formed out own government. The Iraqis didn't overthrow their government WE did.

I certainly don't need a you to insult me. Saying I am selfish because I don't like all the killing in Iraq that Bush started. That I dishonor our ancestors and humanity by disregarding their sacrifices? Do you have a book that you get this from? Or do you come up with this all by yourself? My goodness.

You did exactly what I expect a Bush supporter would do. Take blame off Bush and put it on someone else. In this case me because I am not supporting him. I guess I must be responsible for all the death? I must not be supporting our troops because I don't agree with my president.

You probably consider me un-American. Perhaps you should take a moment and look in the mirror. Or visit one of the websites with pictures of the service men and women that have died for this little revolution. Go through their pictures and get to know them. They are dead and not coming back. I wonder how Bush and his followers can sleep at night knowing how many lives they have destroyed. How many deaths will it take?

And Hunchy... The best you can come up with in answer to all the people killed in this conflict is "Amen Raven! Amen!"

My god you are a sad individual.

http://www.dailycardinal.com/news/2004/10/22/News/Iraq-Veterans.Open.Up.On.Mishandling.Of.War-777333.shtml

an interesting, yet disturbing article i found. hear it from iraq war veterans

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Media Credit: Nate Greenbaum/The Daily Cardinal
David Boetcher, a soldier in the National Guard who served in the Persian Gulf War, speaks to students Thursday evening at Vilas Hall about his experience and urges them to vote. Boetcher will leave for Iraq in January.

Soldiers returning from Iraq offered firsthand accounts of the war's turmoil Thursday. Sponsored by the College Democrats, the panel met to discuss service obstacles as well as dangerous trends in military policy.

"You know so much about supporting the troops, especially since the election's taking place," said David Boetcher, a Gulf War veteran headed for Iraq in January. "Our job is to get to the issues behind the rhetoric."

Boetcher presented the audience with statistics showing how veterans are losing service benefits at a rapid rate. With lowered funding for support programs and the rising trend of soldiers being reactivated for a second tour of duty, there is little incentive to remain in the service.

Rather than being reassured, however, soldiers have begun to receive rude awakenings through a "Fed Ex letter" strategy. "You get a package, and you have to show up [for service] two days later," Boetcher said. "The military has a plan for action and it's not getting told."

Jennifer Giese of the 826th Ordinance experienced this firsthand; she came home and found orders to report to Ohio's Fort Campbell. After spending 68 days on base due to confusion over troop deployment, she was sent to Tikrit and stationed at an abandoned Iraqi airbase.

While the unit suffered no fatalities in Iraq, they were plagued the entire time by supply chain glitches. The unit never received body armor, and had to resort to stealing scrap metal for vehicle armor. Bottled water had to be rationed due to shortages, but Giese later filled a swimming pool for a general's use.

"This was a complete, chaotic mess," Giese said. "In my opinion there was no plan ... no one knew where we were going."

Abie Pickett of the 229th Combat Support Equipment division agreed; she said by the time her unit arrived in Kuwait there was no space, save a building with shoulder-high debris.

According to Brenda Bickel-Bonds, whose husband Michael is serving in Iraq, soldiers also suffer from detachment due to the stretched manpower. She said her husband was taken away from his unit and stationed in Puerto Rico despite the fact he spoke no Spanish. Adding insult to injury, time served there did not count toward his total.

Boetcher said moves like this have lowered enrollment and confidence among armed forces, creating a serious issue in the military.

"The problem with this war is it's not dying down," Boetcher said. "There's got to be something done, because it's [the military's] not going to last."

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Do you realize what exactly we went threw through the past 4 years? Ressecion followed by war. Most wars are fought when getting out of ressecion, considering the circumstances, we are actually doing quite good.

A recession that was well due might I add. It followed the largest gains in American history.

That recession was greatly affected by 9/11 as well, but going to war was not the answer. It was a severe waste of government funds, American soldiers, and valuable time.

Instead of bombing the living shit out of Iraq, we should have found other means of procuring cheaper oil, lowering the cost for community college education, and most importantly health insurance.

All 3 things are far, far more important than removing a dictator that was NO THREAT to the safety of the United States.

Yes, we are doing well...but we could most certainly be doing a lot better. And we should have caught Osama Bin Laden by now, instead of wasting American lives removing Saddam from power.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Oh and what do the terrorists bombs do everyday? Make them happier?
We do not use bombers or air support unless the enemy is in a relatively wide area with minimal civilian buildings. You drop a bomb at 30,000 feet and hit a target dead on. That movie was so one sided i can't believe a human can go in and not feel totally manipulated and lied to. Showing pictures of our bombs killing peole by accident is no way to depict an enemy who actually aims for them. Please explain the logic of accident compared to intention.

accidents and intent are non-factors in these people's decision.

what are you going to tell the person who's whole family your bomb killed?

"oh sorry, we didn't mean to whipe all traces of the 9 members of your household off the face of the Earth, it was an accident"

It doesn't change the overall result. Iraqis killing Iraqi security personel don't see them as fellow Iraqis. They see the security personel as traitors for siding with Americans.

Look at the news. Everyday, there are more and more bombs going off all over the country, more and more civilian contractors, and security personel getting executed. We're losing this war, because as much as I don't enjoy admitting this....Kerry was right, it's the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

It has just been announced that Bush is planning to ask for an additional $70 Billion dollars for Iraq.

Apparently the unnecessary, unwarranted mess he's created in Iraq is just going to get more expensive and more expensive and more expensive.

Call me crazy, but aren't our police officers and fire fighters and soldiers benefits and pay being cut?
That $70 Billion on top of the already $200 billion spent could really have helped those folks.

I wouldn't mind one bit the cost if I thought this war was making America safer.
The war in Iraq is not a war on terror.

It still boggles my mind that 70% of Americans still believe that Iraq had something to do with 9/11.

Uneducated, uninformed and misinformed Americans are the reason Bush is doing as well as he is.

It's actually only $120 billion, but it's projected to be close to $200 billion by the end of the year.

And I wouldn't knock him for the $70 billion he's asking for, but I would most certainly agree with you on the statement:

Apparently the unnecessary, unwarranted mess he's created in Iraq is just going to get more expensive and more expensive and more expensive.

because he's an idiot for going into Iraq in the first place...

But getting more money to further provide for our troops is NEVER a bad thing. The fact that we need that money for our troops in the first place is the bad thing...

well, i dont think that all bush supporters are uneducated, but i will say that bush seems to have the market cornered on stupid people. some people vote for bush based on an intelligent thought-out descision, while many many others just dont even know why they are voting for him.

2 days ago im driving home from work and i see a pickup truck with a sign on the back window which said "DON'T BE A P***Y, VOTE FOR BUSH", no joke. when have you ever seen such an asenine statement for democrats?

bush attracts 2 types of people:
-republicans
-stupid people

ask a republican about why they support bush, and you will have a discussion on the issues, as we witness here with a select few of his supporters.

however, ask others and you will hear crap like "kerry just wants to ban the bible" or "im not voting for leftist communists" or other ignorant products of right wing propaganda.

thats why i like micheal moore. is his views BS? well they ARE oversimplified, and manipulated. 9-11 is simply a left version of the "idiots guide to the bush administration" same intelligence level as the stupidity i see coming from the right, but on the other side. i think it levels the playing field. stupid people vote too, and a classic mistake of the left is not appealing to them.

So now the ppl that vote for Bush are idiots. Bush is an Idiot and so are the ppl that vote for him. I guess that IF Bush wins America is simply stupid! Great!

Didn't George Orwell say something about individuals being intelligent, but the masses being dumb in his book 1984?

Patriot Act....Big Brother

Guess some of his predictions are starting to take truth 20 years after his estimate...

The only difference is that the book is fiction and this is real life. BB is fiction and PA is real.

Originally posted by WindDancer
So now the ppl that vote for Bush are idiots. Bush is an Idiot and so are the ppl that vote for him. I guess that IF Bush wins America is simply stupid! Great!

hmm..hope you were not quoting me.
i dont think all bush supporters are idiots.
some present a rather good arguement.
i ultimately have settled on kerry, due to my own views.

i do think however that the majority of stupid people
(and you know there are PLENTY of them) chose bush.
now i think the left has finally caught on and is appealing to
those of education as well as those of...idiocy.

its a shame, but the fact is that stupid people dont want to read
the paper, watch the debates, form their own educated opinion on the issue,
or do anything more than decide which candidate has the better one-liner and
which candidate they just dont trust...no reason in particular...there's just something about them they dont trust (i hear this alot, and cant help but laugh).

its a shame that both campaigns resort to this, but the bottom line is that an idiot's vote has just as much weight as yours.

Originally posted by PVS
hmm..hope you were not quoting me.
i dont think all bush supporters are idiots.
some present a rather good arguement.
i ultimately have settled on kerry, due to my own views.

If I wanted to quoted you (like I'm doing now) I would have done it. I'm making comment on what I'm hearing around my side of the world. Whatever you issues might be for voting for Kerry those are your own and other ppl that feel like voting for Kerry.

It's true...every one of my friends and family wanted to vote Bush, but they never looked into politics.

My friends and some in my family have NEVER picked up a news paper, watched a debate, or read an article on the internet. They just want to vote for Bush because Kerry looks like Herman Munster.

oh ok. it seemed like you were commenting to someone on this thread, and since the post came right after mine, it was clearly an understandable mistake.

Actually there is this possibility. Given the fact that I watched the president over 4 years and watched the debates and took in to consideration everything going on in my life and what I am seeing happening in my life, yes I'm open minded about evolution, religion, and I will be voting Bush as well as most of my family, and county. It is heavy repuplican because we don't see the issues that Kerry brings up.

I think we like Bush more because we see him as a Texan, and living simply (meaning quiet areas and time for reflection). Most people live simply and Bush is now not simply living since he is in the most targeted office in the world. Reflection (quiet time) is needed to allow what has happened to sink in. Then, at least as it has happened recently for me, you start to see connections in movies, tv, daily life that start to make sense how Bush spoke.

I see that Bush is taking everything very seriously. This is how he sees things as I'm seeing them in my daily life. I think openly about people, I care that they need to make their own decisions. If you disagree that Bush thinks open minded, that's too bad because here is the truth about Bush.

He knows people underestimate him. He enjoys the fact that people underestimate his ablities, and knows not to underestimate anyone. If someone understood this much about themself, you must be open minded. The only mistake he seamingly makes in my mind is how his personality makes his knowledge about himself seam like arrogance.

When he says, "I will win this election." It isn't merely arrogance. It is also positive thinking on the outcome. He knows he can win because people don't know his strengths and he keeps them unknown until they are needed. If you think Bush isnt underestimated, what did Saddam do? He underestimates him.

My take on Kerry from the debates is very funny indeed. When asked what he has learned from the women in his life, he replies "Integrity, integrity, integrity." Integrity means honesty, truth, and honor.
To be completely honest. Given everything I've thought about open mindedly. Kerry is not honest, not truthful, and he does have honor. Honest people take their jobs seriously (I take my job seriously), and do what they say (I work to help people and did it today many times), and not just say what they are going to do. "I have a plan for America" I haven't heard what Kerry specifically will do about Bush's tax cut other than remove it. "The Bush administration sent us to war" "we won't" "Big plans, for America" That is a promise that Kerry can't keep, because terrorist will fight whether we lead an attack on them, or sit and do nothing. What Bush acted on, was if I do nothing, I'll be critisized for not using the resources I have. He used the resources, and now he wasn't supposed to because of what other people might think.

If you use basic real logic. (*right now I'm completely serious*) Kerry is not good to vote for. The only option is Bush. I've thought through this alot (so you can't change my opinions) and I'm voting Bush and I'm not going to make anyone vote for him, but I will tell everyone what I see is happening. I haven't been more sure in my life. I'm voting for Bush on
*leadership (you can perceive that his leadership got us into a war, I just think it is that Saddam underestimated Bush, and we are here)
*truth I didn't lose my job, infact I have an easy job that pays for my college loans at about $8/hr. I can't make this up. I'm doing it right now. Doing IT. Not just saying it.
*honor Bush during the debates said that Laura told him to not scowl. Bush honored his wife and didn't scowl. Bush changes when he needs to. I'd trust him to do the right thing for the next 4 years.

I'm really confident. And that is how Bush feels about his chances, and I owe it to a positive open mind.

That is how Bruce Lee thinks, George Lucas, Eminem, Galeleo, Jesus, myself, and George W Bush think. I'm not making this up, this is a conclusion I've come to after writing 20 to 30 posts on the matters all over every board.

Bush is a do-er. Kerry is an actor (a sayer) I want a do-er.

"If you use basic real logic. (*right now I'm completely serious*) Kerry is not good to vote for. The only option is Bush."

morphing and insult of intelligence into a left handed slap is still slamming.
so those you vote kerry do not use basic logic? come on now, practice what you preach.

and as far as 'reflection time', may i remind you that bush, like kerry is of the upper class. they both have plenty of reflection time if not too much.
bush does such a great job at faking out his audience and making them believe that hes just another middle class. "and you and me are left to pay the bill" and other lines like that make people think bush is just like them

they are both silver spoon babies turned overly powerful politicians.

accept the folly of both candidates or you yourself are in folly.
the only way bush is like you and me is that his shit stinks too.
and you need to recognise that instead of building him up to be a saint.

Amen.. you make your choice as I did, and chose different occurances to focus upon. And you chose Kerry, and I will say, thanks for taking the time to understand him. 🙂

Great open minds can disagree.

This deserved another post.