Originally posted by Grimm22
Genius is science and tactics 😉Although that dosent mean Cap isnt smart.
Cap is a genius when it comes to tactics
But if you're smart in other fields too, then you've got a major advantage. For example, in an old comic of Precrisis Batman, he'd use his knowledge of physics and math to calculate the probability of winning a confrontation if he were to pursue the fight this way and that way; Captain America would have no such advantage, but Black Panther, who is well-rounded in education could do lots of stuff.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
But if you're smart in other fields too, then you've got a major advantage. For example, in an old comic of Precrisis Batman, he'd use his knowledge of physics and math to calculate the probability of winning a confrontation if he were to pursue the fight this way and that way; Captain America would have no such advantage, but Black Panther, who is well-rounded in education could do lots of stuff.
Exactly. Knowledge like that can spell victory.
Hell, BP used a floor cleaning product to disable Iron Man's camoflauge/stealth capabilities. Then went on to systematically shut down his suit. That takes some smarts there.
Black Panther wins 6/10.
Wow, it's really hard to choose between them, isn't it? I know that Cap is a master tactician and leader, because in the JLA/Avengers crossover everybody votes for him to be the team leader, even Superman. In that battle BP is one of the foot soldiers, hiding in the shadows, helping Batman.
I would say BP is more sneaky, he might do something like wait somewhere up high, invisible in the shadows, and then pounce when Cap 's back is turned. Especially in the jungle I might give the edge to BP.
If it's more of a straight battle-field type of environment, with not much space to hide and pounce, I might give it to Cap, simply because of all the experience he has with those types of battles - he is a soldier, after all!
Originally posted by Dreampanther
Wow, it's really hard to choose between them, isn't it? I know that Cap is a master tactician and leader, because in the JLA/Avengers crossover everybody votes for him to be the team leader, even Superman. In that battle BP is one of the foot soldiers, hiding in the shadows, helping Batman.I would say BP is more sneaky, he might do something like wait somewhere up high, invisible in the shadows, and then pounce when Cap 's back is turned. Especially in the jungle I might give the edge to BP.
If it's more of a straight battle-field type of environment, with not much space to hide and pounce, I might give it to Cap, simply because of all the experience he has with those types of battles - he is a soldier, after all!
Yes Capt is a soldier, but Panther is a Warrior, from a Warrior race that has never been conquered by any soldiers, he has been training in combat since he was 4 years old. So the experience factor can go both ways.
On top of this, wakandians believe T'challa to be the greatest king ever, to including leadership and fighting ability, even greater then his father, who defeated Capt.
It will be a good battle either way, but I give it to BP 6-7/10
*sighs* Everyone uses T'chaka's victory over Steve to spell T'Challa's. That doesn't equate, I'm afraid. The Steve rogers of today, and the Steve Rogers of the 1940's are very very different, my friend. Besides, in ever confrontation they have had, it has been a stalemate. They have both managed to get the upper hand on Spider man, they have both taken out people way out of their league. They both are enhanced human(Super Soldier Serum, and the Heart Shaped Herb.)
Steve is stronger, faster, PHYSICALLY more apt. T'Challa has arguably better skills, and more weapons.
It comes down to 5/10. Or perhaps 5.5/10 in either direction. There really is no clear victor when it comes down to a fully armed Captain America versus a fully armed Black Panther.
Originally posted by Soljer
*sighs* Everyone uses T'chaka's victory over Steve to spell T'Challa's. That doesn't equate, I'm afraid. The Steve rogers of today, and the Steve Rogers of the 1940's are very very different, my friend. Besides, in ever confrontation they have had, it has been a stalemate. They have both managed to get the upper hand on Spider man, they have both taken out people way out of their league. They both are enhanced human(Super Soldier Serum, and the Heart Shaped Herb.)Steve is stronger, faster, PHYSICALLY more apt. T'Challa has arguably better skills, and more weapons.
It comes down to 5/10. Or perhaps 5.5/10 in either direction. There really is no clear victor when it comes down to a fully armed Captain America versus a fully armed Black Panther.
No steve is not faster, or more agile then panther. BP fights like Spiderman, jumping off wall, crawling like a panther when he fights, he fights on all fours alot of the time. It take a lot of agility to move like that let alone fight that way.
Panther has some pretty crazy strength feats also, like I said, I believe he got an upgrade, I cant confirm it yet, but if he did, it puts him above capt in every category.
In terms of skill, they are probably equal, Steve is an excellent H2H fighter and his shield is an extension of his body.
Originally posted by Soljer
*sighs* Everyone uses T'chaka's victory over Steve to spell T'Challa's. That doesn't equate, I'm afraid. The Steve rogers of today, and the Steve Rogers of the 1940's are very very different, my friend. Besides, in ever confrontation they have had, it has been a stalemate. They have both managed to get the upper hand on Spider man, they have both taken out people way out of their league. They both are enhanced human(Super Soldier Serum, and the Heart Shaped Herb.)Steve is stronger, faster, PHYSICALLY more apt. T'Challa has arguably better skills, and more weapons.
It comes down to 5/10. Or perhaps 5.5/10 in either direction. There really is no clear victor when it comes down to a fully armed Captain America versus a fully armed Black Panther.
Just like the Steve Rogers of today, T'Challa is also different and superior to T'Chaka.
The strength, I would definitely say is even. I've seen both of them perform very impressive strength feats. It would be unwise to choose a stronger one.
Faster? Black Panther is faster. Don't get me wrong, Cap is uber fast, too. Just not as fast. And BP is definitely more agile as well. Again, not knocking Cap. He's hella agile, too.
To be honest, it's really hard to say who is more physically perfect. Mostly because it's extremely difficult to accurately compare the Super Soldier Serum against the Heart-shaped Herb.
However, I do agree that this match will be extremely close, with neither opponent backing down until there is no breathe in their bodies. I just believe this VERY slight advantage will be in Black Panther's favor, 5.5/10.
You see, just because T'Challa is written like spiderman, doesn't necessarily make him faster. More Agile? Hell yes, I agree with you 100% on that count. But not faster.
Cap has blown by the punisher to beat him up stairs, while the punisher had a huge head start. Cap has dodged bullets at point blank range. Cap has ran fast enough, while being shot at, to apparently disapper in the shooter's field of vision. Only to appear right behind him. Cap has ran at sixty miles an hour, and didn't even seem to be fully exerting himself.
Speed? Maybe they are equal. If I am feeling generous to Black Panther.
Strength though? That is definitely Cap's. The best strength feats I've read for black panther involve wrestling/stopping animals and the like. Which takes more skill than strength. Not to say he doesn't have others, but Captain America's strength feats DEFINITELY beat out the T'Challa's.
Anyways; on the T'chaka, T'challa, and Steve note...I'm aware that it is popularly regarded that T'Challa is his father's superior. Be that as it may, it doesn't refute the fact that in ANY meeting that T'challa and Steve have ever had, they stalemated. Or, as in the contest of champions, Steve came out on top.
If it HAD to be edged in either direction, I could much more easily see 5.5/10 to Captain America than to Black Panther.
However, my 'official' answer remains 5/10. Draw.
Originally posted by Soljer
You see, just because T'Challa is written like spiderman, doesn't necessarily make him faster. More Agile? Hell yes, I agree with you 100% on that count. But not faster.Cap has blown by the punisher to beat him up stairs, while the punisher had a huge head start. Cap has dodged bullets at point blank range. Cap has ran fast enough, while being shot at, to apparently disapper in the shooter's field of vision. Only to appear right behind him. Cap has ran at sixty miles an hour, and didn't even seem to be fully exerting himself.
Speed? Maybe they are equal. If I am feeling generous to Black Panther.
Strength though? That is definitely Cap's. The best strength feats I've read for black panther involve wrestling/stopping animals and the like. Which takes more skill than strength. Not to say he doesn't have others, but Captain America's strength feats DEFINITELY beat out the T'Challa's.
Anyways; on the T'chaka, T'challa, and Steve note...I'm aware that it is popularly regarded that T'Challa is his father's superior. Be that as it may, it doesn't refute the fact that in ANY meeting that T'challa and Steve have ever had, they stalemated. Or, as in the contest of champions, Steve came out on top.
If it HAD to be edged in either direction, I could much more easily see 5.5/10 to Captain America than to Black Panther.
However, my 'official' answer remains 5/10. Draw.
In the contest of champions, they both were not fighting all out.
I could easily say that one time BP was severely injured, and still fought steve to a standstill, another time was BP went back in time and Fought Steve in the 1940's, BP knows they were good friends in the future and he didn't fight all out, but steve was and they still stalemated.
And as for speed, Black told someone he could easily take the gun from his hand, discharge the magazine, and put it back into that persons hand before they even knew it. BP has also dodge laser at point blank range, and he didn't even see it coming, he has dodge gunfire shot at his back without even looking, caught a spear from behind without even looking. I mean the guy toyed with wolverine in one fight win wolverine wanted to kill him, and on top of that, wolverine was amazed at how fast BP was and he couldn't even react to him grabbing his arm and throwing him into the other X-men.
Originally posted by Soljer
You see, just because T'Challa is written like spiderman, doesn't necessarily make him faster. More Agile? Hell yes, I agree with you 100% on that count. But not faster.Cap has blown by the punisher to beat him up stairs, while the punisher had a huge head start. Cap has dodged bullets at point blank range. Cap has ran fast enough, while being shot at, to apparently disapper in the shooter's field of vision. Only to appear right behind him. Cap has ran at sixty miles an hour, and didn't even seem to be fully exerting himself.
Speed? Maybe they are equal. If I am feeling generous to Black Panther.
Strength though? That is definitely Cap's. The best strength feats I've read for black panther involve wrestling/stopping animals and the like. Which takes more skill than strength. Not to say he doesn't have others, but Captain America's strength feats DEFINITELY beat out the T'Challa's.
Anyways; on the T'chaka, T'challa, and Steve note...I'm aware that it is popularly regarded that T'Challa is his father's superior. Be that as it may, it doesn't refute the fact that in ANY meeting that T'challa and Steve have ever had, they stalemated. Or, as in the contest of champions, Steve came out on top.
If it HAD to be edged in either direction, I could much more easily see 5.5/10 to Captain America than to Black Panther.
However, my 'official' answer remains 5/10. Draw.
Understandable. And I respect your opinion. You're one of the most level-headed debators on here, which is always nice. It's great to see some actual thought and explanation go into your argument rather than just vote for one character because he/she is that character. For example: "Cap wins because he's Cap!" Know what I mean?
Kudos, dude. Keep it up. 🤘
Originally posted by Apolloknight
In the contest of champions, they both were not fighting all out.
I could easily say that one time BP was severely injured, and still fought steve to a standstill, another time was BP went back in time and Fought Steve in the 1940's, BP knows they were good friends in the future and he didn't fight all out, but steve was and they still stalemated.And as for speed, Black told someone he could easily take the gun from his hand, discharge the magazine, and put it back into that persons hand before they even knew it. BP has also dodge laser at point blank range, and he didn't even see it coming, he has dodge gunfire shot at his back without even looking, caught a spear from behind without even looking. I mean the guy toyed with wolverine in one fight win wolverine wanted to kill him, and on top of that, wolverine was amazed at how fast BP was and he couldn't even react to him grabbing his arm and throwing him into the other X-men.
Yes, I know in contest of champions neither fighter was going all out. Hence, I don't use it as irrefutable evidence of Cap's superiority. I just mentioned it as a time when Cap broke the continual stalemate they seem to have. Also, as I mentioned before, 1940's Cap and current Cap are nearly as different as 616 and Ultimate. A LOT of progression there.
Anywho, Black Panther told someone that, but I've never seen him actually do it, you never know whether he was using an intimidation factor or not. As far as lasers go, though? Every street leveller dodges lasers. It's routine. Cap has done it a million times.
Hell, you want to get on about lasers...Cap ROLLED with a laser. You know, like a boxer would roll with a punch, so he doesn't take the brunt of it. How in the unholy hell do you roll with a laser? 😱
Anyway, gunfire is no big feat either, as Cap has deflected gunfire without being able to see the gunman. He also easily caught his shield when thrown by an ANGRY Savage Hulk. I would be willing to bet that an angry savage hulk throws the perfectly aerodynamic hunk of metal a LOT faster than the average spear chunker.
Lastly, Wolverine. While impressive, I have found it appropriate to never use Wolverine's showings. His popularity as a character often skews him in either direction. He never shows an 'average' showing, he either does AMAZINGLY, or POORLY. Either he is shown as being unstoppable, or he is shown as a whipping boy to illustrate that X character is really THAT much better.
Captain America has taken it to Wolverine. As has Nick Fury and DareDevil. Yet, spider-man never manages to?
Eh, I choose not to use Wolverine showings. And if that makes it seem like I am avoiding your point, I apologize, I just would rather not get into a debate revolving around Logan's skills, rather than the two fighters at hand.
EDIT: Oh, and metalman? Thanks for the accolades. It means a lot, especially coming from a poster as respected as you. It's much appreciated, friend.