Best and Worst StarWars Duels

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Aside from that being GL's original idea, you mean?

And this idea about the fights being there just for their own sake strikes me as arrant balderdash. That's no different to the original films. And also the idea that they in some way weren't trying to prioritise the choreography of the OT duels is crud as well- they just weren't as good at it. You're just being confused by the fact the ESB duel is in the best film and the ROTJ one the best bit of that film.

I rate the TPM duel above the OT ones in terms of look, style- AND drama. It brought the Sith out into the open, provided all the characterisation as I mentioned above, brought GL's dream of what duels were ABOUT onto the screen, and advanced a vital part of the plot. Frankly, I think what you call 'insanity' is actually simply me not being stuck in the past, making more of things than there really was.

Sorry if I missed it, but what are your thoughts about the lightsaber duel in AOTC? You've made a lot of good points about some of the duels so far, just curious what you thought about that one. I thought Dooku was the best swordsman out of anyone we've seen thus far.

the best duel will have to be me vs. my friend.

the worst duel will have to be me vs. my dad.

Originally posted by Sith Master X
Sorry if I missed it, but what are your thoughts about the lightsaber duel in AOTC? You've made a lot of good points about some of the duels so far, just curious what you thought about that one. I thought Dooku was the best swordsman out of anyone we've seen thus far.

I thought it was ok, well made but not spectacular; the point is that it wasn't the focus of the film; in TPM the big set event was the duel, with a battle around it; in AOTC the big set event was the battle, with a duel stuck after it.

I agree about Dooku, though.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I rate the TPM duel above the OT ones in terms of look, style- AND drama. It brought the Sith out into the open, provided all the characterisation as I mentioned above, brought GL's dream of what duels were ABOUT onto the screen, and advanced a vital part of the plot.

I am baffled.... Drama in the TPM fight?????? Brought the Sith out in the open? It's a first chapter: the Sith are a completely unknown force, their plans are very unclear at this stage. It has little or no dramatic implications. All we see is a fighting machine Maul that can only beaten by lightsabres. That's the only reason Jedi are required.
The bond between OB1 and QGJ is so filmsy in the film that QGJ's death has only limited dramatic elements. It's hardly an advancement in the plot: Maul dies and his story ends there. All the Jedi know is that there are Sith, but the viewer is entirely left in the dark as to what the heck that would mean. So the drama is very limited. Maul's death gives no clues that may lead to uncovering the plot, after all the Dark Side clouds the vision of the Jedi.
I do agree that it brought GL's dream about. If Luke and Vader had fought like that in ESB and ROTJ, they would have been perfect. But there are no moments of the caliber of tyhe ESB fight or the bit after Vader's line in ROTJ "If you will not be turned, then perhaps she will".

Sorry, Ush, I know you not proned to agreeing with other people, but where this comes from in your particular case as a writer is entirely beyond me.

Well, that's entirely your problem then, queeq. As far as I am concerned you are making yourself willfully blind to the implications of that fight. I've made my points clear already' I am not going to just keep making them again.

Ush, I was kinda being sarcastic about the whole "insanity" thing. You've managed to explain your thoughts properly, and I respect that.

Sorry if I seem to be very anti-PT, but I'm not. I just REALLY like the old barbaric way of fighting.

I reckon the Ep.3 duel will be fantastic, as I'm assuming it will have the best of both worlds - in that it will be an epic showdown like Luke and Vader, but with the old barbaric style, mixed with some stunning Maul/Obi-Wan style set pieces. I can't really see it being done any other way.

To me there is no matching the final Vader/Luke confrontation. It had the emotion, the background music and the feel (if you know what I mean)
These new fights are pretty to look at but seem to be seriously lacking the emotion that made the OT duels so great. (minus the Obi vs Vader EP4 one)
But I think it's pretty save to assume that as of May 2005 it will change. 12 minutes of Anakin Vs Obi (an duel WITH emotion)
........ it's gonna be awesome.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, that's entirely your problem then, queeq. As far as I am concerned you are making yourself willfully blind to the implications of that fight. I've made my points clear already' I am not going to just keep making them again.

Hardly a problem, Ush. And certainly not mine. I am not willfully blind to the implications of that fight. I see them, but they are so hidden from a general audience that it requires a lot more knowledge and understanding of what's going on behind it all to really see all that (drama, revelation, plot points) connected to the fight. It's exactly as you say: it has implications. But just looking at Episode I as the start of a series, of a story there is very little going on in this fight except a nice dance. I noticed that in so many non-SW fans who saw the movie. It was unanimous in saying that the story was flimsy but the effects were nice. I personally disagree with the flimsiness, but I can understand why one comes to that conclusion after watching TPM: you cannot see it. Nowhere, it is hidden in subtleties and (in the long run) implications. That doesn't make it dramatic though.