atheiast will all burn in hell!!!according to them there aint no hell so you need to find another place
Care brings us back to guilt, doesn't it? What's the point of caring if yuo could advance yourself more by notwell you will fall a victim of that yourself in the end, but you kind of described stock brokers though
Originally posted by finti
well you will fall a victim of that yourself in the end, but you kind of described stock brokers though
Well, unfortunately, in real life there a quite a lot of people that doesn't happen to- the stockbrokers who shaft everyone else, make millions and die happy... why not try to be that yourself, rather than being a caring but very miserable guy barely able to make ends meet? If you had that choice.
as much as i like to believe that humans are born with an inborn sense of right or wrong...i find that hard to swallow in the fact that where does one find what in relation to what is right or what is wrong...for the religious that was explained away by our so called definition of God...for the Buddhist possibly as an action to a reaction, e.g. (hypothetical guess)to show kindness will in return be reciprocated...
for an atheist the question of morality is based on what? an act of kindness and charity towards your fellow humans? or is it based on do unto them as they would do to you?
maybe an atheist is a closet pragmatist...
The fact that atheists care about other people at all is what leads me to believe that everybody is born with some sense of morality. Not really "right vs wrong", more of just an instinctive sense of caring for other humans. If an old woman falls down on a sidewalk, people stop to help her... Religious or not. Surely this proves my point at least a little?
Darth> But what do you think MAKES us moral? An inborn sense? How can that be?
HockeyHorror> Perhaps what makes you think there’s something “wrong” with the Old Testament is the emphasis on zealousness and revenge. I mean, the God in those books tosses rocks at cities, allows murder to be committed and preaches “an eye for an eye”.
Fëanor> Then what are you? 🙂 An alien? 😄
As for polygamy. As far as I know, once upon a time when we were hunters and collectors who-ever man could support more than one woman would do so – for the benefit of all. If he was strong enough, his genes would be passed on.
Later on in history it was perfectly okay for married people to have affairs. Whatever children would come out of those “Illegal” unions would just not carry the family name…
Lil Bitchiness> But then do you act “Morally” to avoid “it” coming around?
Ush> I dunno what the difference is between a normal and a hardcore atheist. But what underlies my morals is a sense of honour. I’ve simply experienced that it gives my more personal pleasure to act according to my code of honour than to break it.
So – the benefit is feeling good.
And “caring” doesn’t have to be connected to guilt. If pissing on my fellow humans make me feel bad about myself, then that’s not logical for me. I view humans as basically social at heart – we need other people to “function” if you like. That “inbreed” need for companionship is stronger than egoism.
Originally posted by finti
most people learn a sense of morality from paretns and in school. And then there is common sense a thing that religious people by no means have monopoly on
Well, it's called common sense for a reason... Because most people have it.
Omega>your last comment (to Ush) is really what I'm talking about when I say people have an inborn sense of morality... I really should have used a different word--humans are social creatures, they need to be accepted by other people... Which is why most people don't intentionally go around being mean to everybody else for their own gain.
Well, To answer Ush's question properly, you have to look at what makes religious people act morally good or whatever. Its a fear of God, or going to Hell or reincarnating as a Dung Beetle, or whatever.
But Atheists Don't have that fear, so I guess nothing is stopping them, But The reason they don't do it is because their morals are for a different reason, Its for doing what is right to help people, not so that they wont be punished. I've never meet and Athiest who is an ass, they are usually nice because they believe in people not gods.
Guilt may play a part in it as well.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
May I ask the hardcore atheists- to your mind, what is the benefit, or maybe the point, of acting in a moral way if you are capable of getting much more for yourself by acting in an immoral way?
One of the benefits of acting in a "moral" way (apart from self-respect) is laid out by Richard Dawkins in his book the selfish gene. If you break behavior down into 3 stereotypes - cheat, sucker and grudger - the first two being self evident and the 3rd being an example of treating people fairly and decently until they act differently towards you - and then and only then acting hostile towards them - when you run the groups interactively as a model you see that the grudgers group comes off best every single time. It's good for survival of the species.
An example being the birds that clean a crocodile's teeth. They gain protection from other predators, while the crocodile gains less rotting teeth.
It pays to be "moral" but not to turn the other cheek. It's called Reciprocal altruism - it's worth reading up on.